Double Bass Why are 5-String (low B) upright basses so rare?

[Wasnex]

Long ago I took lessons from the Principal bassist of the defunct Sacramento Symphony and currently the Sacramento Philharmonic. Just before I left the area, he had a fabulous new 5 string built by an up and coming West coast luthier. What I remember was the bass had a huge bridge and very deep ribs. I believe it was a 7/8 violin shaped instrument, but I think the scale of the strings was very close to standard length. I remember it played surprisingly easily and was loud and relatively even across the strings with both pizzicato and arco. I do think it had a wolf on the G string, but otherwise it had a nice singing tone. I think he mentioned something about the builder tuning the resonance of the front and back panels of the bass so they reinforced the B string. Overall I think it was a very good instrument for orchestral work.

He also had a rather fabulous sounding 7/8 4 string with a C extension. I believe it was an American made flat back that was quite old, at least by American standards. I remember this bass as being powerful and eager to speak.

Recent photos and videos I have found show him with a 4-string with C extension, so perhaps he abandoned the 5-string.

IMHO, to find a 5-string tuned BEADG that is actually worth playing would cost a fortune. I also think the extra strings poses additional technical hurdles that must be overcome.

I was quite happy playing jazz on an NS Design 6-string EUB, so I don't think the extra string would limit me very much, but I am not a symphonic caliber performer. All of my bowing was done on a 4-string.

 

[csrund]

Hello,

I'm thinking of experimenting with a CHEAP five string bass ... Any other ideas (other than, "are you crazy, don't do it!)

Thanks
Louis
l

Louis,

I bought a 5-string Shen from Bob Beerman's shop a few years ago and have been really pleased with it. (Setup is a critical factor, of course.) However, I believe Shen only offers a 7/8 with a 42" string length. Not sure if that would agree with you physically, as I recall you've had some procedures and shoulder issues. Price tag is just under $6k nowadays.

In addition, you may want to have a look at the Anton Posch model 5-string that Barrie Kolstein imports from (I think) Romania, perhaps(?) It's a smaller instrument with a shorter string length. There was one listed in TB classifieds a while back: SOLD - Anton Posch 38''

Cheers!

 

[LouisF]

Thanks, CS. The Shen, Eastman and Christophers are too big for me. The Thomann is manageable; the Chinese Pullman is based on their Salzburg model, and has a very comfortable upper bout (but I do have qualms about a Chinese bass built on stolen IP). The Posch - and a 5 string Upton Karr are both on the list if I skip the "cheap" step. Thanks very much...

Wasnex: the 5-string Swanson that I put in the want ads for a friend has 9" ribs and a massive bridge and body. It is definitely not a bass I could live with. I played a couple of five strings in London a few years ago (one by Tom Martin in the $20-25K range) and an older German (Lang I think) that were pretty stunning for orchestra work. I'm not looking for that level -- yet )... Just wanting to see how I feel about them beyond the curiosity factor. Any idea who the young luthier was in Sacramento? Ralph Alcala by any chance? Thanks

 

[Wasnex]

Just wanting to see how I feel about them beyond the curiosity factor. Any idea who the young luthier was in Sacramento? Ralph Alcala by any chance? Thanks

Sorry but I don't remember the builders name anymore....that was in the early 90s.

I'll send you a PM.

 

[John Le Guyader]

There are 5's to be had. I've seen a few Kay's throughout the years. Most 5 string players I believe use a high C. If I'm not mistaken many 5's like the old Kay's were originally built to be tuned E-A-D-F#-A.

Here's my advice. You're an experienced electric player moving to the DB. They're both basses. They're both tuned the same. They use the same vocabulary. Basslines translate from one to the other. You use a low B on the BG so naturally you'll be reaching for those notes on the DB. Right? Hold on there....

That's what I thought when I first started. Nope, it's actually not the same at all!! Totally different technique and timbres. That translates to a completely different playing vocabulary. You can refine a song with an electric bassline until every note is perfect- but when you play the same song on the DB, you'll by necessity of physics and by artistic taste be forced to play it completely differently.

You'll need to take sometime to get used to this new (to you) way. This is my recommendation- get a 4. Start slow. Learn the technique. Learn from a private teacher, which is super important- you NEED to get feedback and personal advice. Once you gain some proficiency, and you immerse yourself in recordings of music that uses a DB and study the sound and expectations, and you learn to play some styles and lines of your favorite DB players and songs, you'll get a sense of how to play the thing in a musical way that serves the song. After a few years of that, once you consider yourself a true double bassist and not just an electric bassist that can play the DB, then decide if the low B is even necessary.

Low C extensions will still probably be the best way to go, but they are very expensive.

A little off topic on the fiver discussion, I agree with the above by Rayjay, I was shocked how little my electric bass experience (including 6-string and fretless) translated to being able to play upright when I started (it was like learning an entirety new instrument), and you need lessons...and while 4 strings are more than sufficient on upright for my needs, I still find myself eyeing Kay fivers that come up for sale, but that is another problem all together...

 

[Phil Smith]

I've been playing a 5 string DB in an orchestra setting for over two years now and wouldn't consider modifying my 4 string DB with a C extension. I bought mine directly from a factory in China for about $4,000. I was always interested in trying one out but the used ones I saw were over $8,000. I'm quite happy with the bass and it's what I play exclusively in an orchestra. I've run into a couple of other players with 5'ers in NYC.