Double Bass Why are 5-String (low B) upright basses so rare?

[basspraiser]

I find this very interesting.

I just traded an NS CR4M for a CR5M.

I know.. That's an EUB and not a DB... But .... As mentioned before in this thread... The string spacing was very different... The board width is the same so muscle memory needed some re-training.... And going between that and my true DB ( 4 string) does take some getting used to...

Since I play contemporary Christian music the 5er is very valuable....

I think I'm happy with my real DB being a 4 string .... For now....

 

[Jazz Ad]

American bass players tend to favor 4 string basses with C extensions.
In Europe they are much rarer than 5 string basses.

 

[Jeff Roller]

Playing my fiver upright for our Christmas Eve service at church tomorrow night. Our music is contemporary for most every worship, but tomorrow is more traditional. The opener will be "Come Thou Long Expected Jesus" hammer dulcimer and Arco bass only, last note is a thunderous drawn out low C.

It's quite a difference schlepping the big upright vs throwing the mono gig bag in the car, but some songs make you smile and appreciate the extra effort.

 

[two fingers]

It's kind of the same reason it took forever to see 5 string P basses.

Double basses are mostly traditional. They are played by mostly traditional players. I don't believe there's much of a market for them. Why build too many of a widget with no merket?

(I'm not knocking tradition. Simply pointing out market forces.)

 

[matthewbrown]

It's kind of the same reason it took forever to see 5 string P basses.

Double basses are mostly traditional. They are played by mostly traditional players. I don't believe there's much of a market for them. Why build too many of a widget with no merket?

(I'm not knocking tradition. Simply pointing out market forces.)

I agree. I held off getting an URB, and used a 5-string Azola Acoustic Baby Bass (which I loved), and found that part of what holds people to the tradition is the visual impact of the URB. So now I play a 5-string URB that looks very traditional, and it gives off the right visual signals, I think, for the styles I play.

 

[Jazz Ad]

It's kind of the same reason it took forever to see 5 string P basses.

Double basses are mostly traditional. They are played by mostly traditional players.

5 string basses are anything but a novelty. They have been commonly used since the 19th century, usually with a low C to double the cello.
Wagner and Berlioz used them extensively.

 

[two fingers]

5 string basses are anything but a novelty. They have been commonly used since the 19th century, usually with a low C to double the cello.
Wagner and Berlioz used them extensively.

Correct. But I would still argue that if I were a double bass builder, I wouldn't sink next month's mortgage payment into 5 string double basses. If I had to guess, I would say they make up maybe 1% of double bass sales, if not less......

.....which is the only reason they are still somewhat "rare". And that was OP's question.

5 string electric basses are no longer a novelty either. But I bet the sales of 5 string Fender Precision basses is a tiny fraction of what the sales of 4 string Fender Precision basses are. Why? P bass players tend to be a bit more traditional.

I would venture a guess that 5 string Jazz bass sales are a much larger slice of the total Jazz sales pie. Why? Jazz bass players tend to be less rooted in tradition for the most part.

Neither is "wrong" or "better". Just different approaches.

It's that simple. All I was discussing was CURRENT market forces. Supply and demand. There is WAY less demand for 5 string double basses, so there is WAY less supply. Period.

 

[lurk]

In my admitted limited experience in playing 5 string basses, they just don't sound as good. The enormous weight and pressure on the top inhibits the sound. The 4 string is actually a compromise. 3 was the standard for quite a while. Try removing a string and you be surprised at how vibrant your bass is. On an electric upright stick or bass guitar 5 strings are great, and at least in the circles I travel, that extra string is becoming a requirement.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

Double basses are mostly traditional. They are played by mostly traditional players. I don't believe there's much of a market for them.

I can't really comment anything constructive on this statement...

 

[VictorW126]

Hey y’all! I’ve been wanting to get into upright since last summer when I rented a student 3/4 4-string upright, but as an electric bassist I’m almost exclusively a 5-string player.

Hi! There are many reasons, if I may say so, about some.

1) Among the bass guitars, too, 5-str are much smaller than 4-str ones. Just bass guitar too much, come across all sorts.

2) You can't compare BG and DB. These are different things and your thinking should be different. A DB is a violin, a BG is a guitar. I have never heard the question why the cello does not have six strings like a guitar..

3) There is a bass viola da gamba. This is an ancient tool, but there are modern Chinese copies. She looks like a double bass, but she can have 5, 6 or 7 strings. And frets.

4) When I came to the jazz festival with a 5-str DB, they laughed at me. The most frequent jokes are the words “harp” and “gusli”.

 

[Lee Moses]

It's kind of the same reason it took forever to see 5 string P basses.

Double basses are mostly traditional. They are played by mostly traditional players. I don't believe there's much of a market for them. Why build too many of a widget with no merket?

I really don't think this has anything significant to do with it. There is plenty of music written for double bass which includes notes below E, and has been for centuries. Conductors love to hear basses playing those low notes. I don't really understand why extensions, fairly common in the U.S., would be viewed as any more traditional than a 5-string.

 

[User4843936]

I’ve almost exclusively played five string basses for about the last 8 years. I had a long but thin and wide German built one with a very thick top which sounded awesome. Think it was from about 1860, though there was no label. It was a great sound but you had to really beat it to get a decent amount of noise from it - all that wood in the table didn’t come to life without a lot of effort.

I somewhat foolishly sold that in 2015 and played various Pöllmanns which were owned by the orchestra I was in for about three years after that. They much smaller in length than the old bass I sold but with very deep ribs. Whilst loud they were not at all resonant. Again they were quite heavy to get going.

In March this year I took delivery of a new 5 string bass by Neal Heppleston. It’s the biggest bass I have ever seen or played. The A string sounds absolutely massive. Not at all tight or boxy like the smaller five stringers I’ve come across. The compromise is that with the length of the back being about 125cm and the upper bout also being big and round, it needs my arm fully extended to play it and I’m a tall guy, 6’3”.

I suppose what I’m saying is that in my experience bigger (and longer) is better when it comes to five string basses. At least playing them with the bow. The size you need to get one to really sound good is something that would put off a lot of smaller players I imagine and with good reason. My other bass is a very average sized French one which takes half the effort to play and makes a more direct sound. If you want that huge cushion in the sound and five strings, you can get it but not without playing on a gigantic bass.

 

[arto alho]

Pics or it didn’t happen!
Sorry no meaning to offend, I just would like something to dr00l over..

 

[User4843936]

It’s in London at the moment, but here is a shot of it from the workshop when it was finished. The overstand was subsequently increased from about 35mm to something like 60mm and a massive new bridge put on to get the clearance over the c bouts.

 

[arto alho]

That is just beautiful. Thank you, Sir.

 

[RBrownBass]

View attachment 3259090

It’s in London at the moment, but here is a shot of it from the workshop when it was finished. The overstand was subsequently increased from about 35mm to something like 60mm and a massive new bridge put on to get the clearance over the c bouts.

Gorgeous! Do you have any more photos?

 

[Steve Swan]

A fairly common strategy is to get a stark gauge E string and tune it down to D. For the rare parts that require a Db or C note, that D tuned string could be dropped another whole step without too much interference with overall truing tensions and timbre.

 

[Reiska]

Dare I say 5ths tuning too. I`m not a practiser but a total fanboy. I think it`s safe to say that any of the scordatturas or extension will make a bass sound " better ", whereas a 5-stringer will have to be well thought out in the first place, sounding like fourths tuning does obviously. With that said, among 5ths tuning players it`s a " common " practise to play a standard sized bass with shorter scale, 40 inch-ish. No problem to producing strong low notes, whereas extensions need the extended E/C string lenght or orchestral 5-stringers need the massive body and scale. There are even short scale 5-string basses in CGDAE tuning, but I quess that one wouldn`t be much appreciated if one showed up in the pit with such.

With all this said, there`s so much more about those low notes on fourths tuning than scordattura, 5ths or extensions. You don`t have to practise acrobatics to play your simple line with 3thds and 7ths, or deal with mechanical device stuffed to the worst ergonomic spot you can think of to get where the mastermind thought you need to go.

 

[klyph]

You could just string BEAD.... and work on your thumb technique. (jk)

 

[CaseyVancouver]

You could just string BEAD.... and work on your thumb technique. (jk)

That would be kinda impossible with some of the high notes that are already in thumb position. E tuned down to C works on my bass, as suggested by Mr Swan. Playing chamber music you get those low cello parts all the time.