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Why are local musicians turning down this gig?

#143
SanDiegoHarry said:
which is the exact reason why musicians are paid peanuts. Too many willing to work for squat.
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I think it's a little deeper than that. It's a field where most of the gigs are at night and weekends, so people that work a day job can do it on the side and they don't really care as much how well they're paid. It's just a side gig that they do for fun. I'd say that the "pros" that think they're "pros" are unable to differentiate themselves well enough to justify high pay. I see a lot of "pros" on here that can't even read music.
 
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#145
Big Hoss said:
Not exactly the crappy band's fault. And there are plenty of good bands that will work for peanuts just to get some exposure. It's the bar owner / managers fault for...
#1. Not auditioning / listening to demos of the band in question.
#2. Offering to pay diddly squat to begin with.
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If the crappy bands weren't so desperate to play rock star and put quality before their need to assault people's senses, the cheapo bar owners would have to reevaluate what they think a band is "worth".
 
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#147
I wouldn't play it. We start at $1500 split 5 ways in our country/classic rock band. And unless the bank starts taking hot dogs in lieu of cash for my mortgage, food doesn't count as payment.

Halloween we are booked for our holiday rate of $2K - same rate for us as NYE. And we are booked then as well.

The biggest reason that venues can pay as little as so many complain about, is that there are bands willing to play for nothing. If everybody in your area decided that they wouldn't play for less than $150-200 per member, anyone who wanted live music would be forced to pay that. The investment in time and equipment that every musician has made has to be worth something. I myself bring over $4K worth of gear to each and every gig. That number is pretty much the same for every other member of our band. Plus our band owned PA system, lights and trailer to haul it all in. That is close to $30K for all of us.

We aren't pulling that out for $50 each.
 
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#148
MultiScaleMale said:
I think it's a little deeper than that. It's a field where most of the gigs are at night and weekends, so people that work a day job can do it on the side and they don't really care as much how well they're paid. It's just a side gig that they do for fun. I'd say that the "pros" that think they're "pros" are unable to differentiate themselves well enough to justify high pay. I see a lot of "pros" on here that can't even read music.
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I can justify the "high pay", as you call it, because I've been doing this since 1976 and have a "book of tunes" that ranges in the thousands. If someone wants me so show up for a premium night gig and play their music, that will cost or I'll go to a party instead. I can afford to say no. Not everyone can, I understand.
 
#149
petrus61 said:
Those are the bands that ruin it for everyone, unfortunately. Club/bar owners hire crappy bands that work for peanuts, crappy bands play crappy music, crappy band chases away customers and club/bar owners decide that having live music "just isn't worth it" anymore. Thanks, crappy band.
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^This. A thousand times this!

Musicians, as a class, are usually their own worst enemies. And the lousy ones are the deadliest of the lot.

I was always of the opinion that if you're working for peanuts, then you're also "paying to play." And that remains true no matter what you want to call it - or how you try to rationalize it to yourself.

The only real difference is that the venue is taking it right off the top.

Same goes for no-pay gigs taken for "exposure" or "visibility."

Musicians need to stop kidding themselves about what's really going on here.
 
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#150
MultiScaleMale said:
I'm still a little confused. Are you looking for a band or for musicians that you will play with?
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I'm looking for musicians to play with me, but that isn't happening, so it looks like a DJ gig. Too bad; I really wanted to play.
the yeti said:
did you try advertising just for a guitarist? and just for a drummer? pay 'em 250 apiece, you keep the tips.
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That is exactly what I have been doing.

I guess I'm just looking at this differently that the folks who are talking about the money.

The way I see it is this:
I've been invited to a great Halloween party; there will be free food, drinks, music, girls in costumes... ~300 people all-together
Oh, there's more? I get to PLAY, too?! Far out! ...AND I get paid?! Yes!

See, I'm not thinking of this as a gig to play; I'm thinking of it as a party at which I get to play. I guess that's my problem... :meh: Oh, well - I found a great DJ; the gig is his.
 
#152
If you had a band who could play 4 x 50 minute sets without devoting the next 6 weeks to rehearsals just to get by...maybe. $125/person for 4 hours of work at a good event, maybe depending on how busy the musicians are. As some said, it doesn't meet their pay scale, but it might for someone else.

If you're trying to form a band, how many hours of work will you need to do between now and then and then what does that make everyone's hourly rate? One set, even two is an entirely different effort. Unless you're playing jazz standards, which I seriously doubt for this gig, 4 hours is a long time. This gets into what I sometime refer to as the false economy of wedding gigs.
 
#154
SanDiegoHarry said:
I can justify the "high pay", as you call it, because I've been doing this since 1976 and have a "book of tunes" that ranges in the thousands. If someone wants me so show up for a premium night gig and play their music, that will cost or I'll go to a party instead. I can afford to say no. Not everyone can, I understand.
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Then you have nothing to worry about.
 
#155
I'm also curious if your musician colleagues / folks who responded to your ad gave any indication why they don't want to play this gig. I guess not otherwise you wouldn't have posted here. So ya, I agree with everyone it's a bit low pay given the length of the gig and probability of a few rehearsals. And LA is huge so drive time is a factor as well. BUT I'd still rather play a Halloween gig on a Sat night for $100 than go to a party, spend $ and watch someone else play.
 
#156
Band pay is stuck in such a vicious cycle. In the 70s, I once witnessed my high school principal hand over a $400 check to a 5-6-person band moments after they finished a three-hour mixer gig and thinking they did pretty well. At the time, my own parents' monthly mortgage payment was only a few dollars more than that, on a pretty nice house. It could also buy you a semester of college at a good Midwestern school. Fast-forward 40 years and not only is the band pay the same, dollar-wise, it's actually going lower, particularly in places where there is an abundance of good players. Forget about the value of the money—that house note is four-to-five times more, as are most of life's fundamental expenses. Granted, the rise of DJs (as well as audiences who prefer them) and cheap gigable equipment has remade the economics of the entertainment game, but unless bands and musicians of quality take a stand on what they will accept for any given work, it will continue to be a downward slide as far as what gets offered. Wise business people don't offer a penny more than they know you'll accept.

OP, I am pretty surprised you didn't find someone to take you up on your offer, because there's always someone out there. Go fig'r.
 
#157
esa372 said:
I'm looking for musicians to play with me, but that isn't happening, so it looks like a DJ gig. Too bad; I really wanted to play.
That is exactly what I have been doing.

I guess I'm just looking at this differently that the folks who are talking about the money.

The way I see it is this:
I've been invited to a great Halloween party; there will be free food, drinks, music, girls in costumes... ~300 people all-together
Oh, there's more? I get to PLAY, too?! Far out! ...AND I get paid?! Yes!

See, I'm not thinking of this as a gig to play; I'm thinking of it as a party at which I get to play. I guess that's my problem... :meh: Oh, well - I found a great DJ; the gig is his.
Click to expand...

I think you hit the nail on the head in some respects. From an economic viewpoint, it doesn't make sense for professional musicians. But it might make sense for hobbyist musicians. Unfortunately, few hobby players are going to have four fifty minute sets of material under their belt, have enough experience with a band to integrate quickly and easily into a group of strangers with little rehearsal, and be able to come up to speed on a lot of new material on short notice. So most hobby players wouldn't have the qualifications to take on a gig like this one.

And the more professional ones wouldn’t want the bother for the money involved. (Note: four 50-minute non-stop sets is a pretty heavy schedule for any gig.)

Therein lies the difference between amateur and professional musicians, I think.:)
 
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#158
i really enjoy this thread.

it's interesting because $500 is our going rate for a 1-set gig with the PA provided and we don't travel more than 15-20 miles. we've just started turning down gigs for lower pay than we want. we used to take every gig we could. i will say that when a person calls for a gig and i tell them our rate, i never hear back. i wonder what they expect to pay. i think people expect us to play for free. we are going to up our fee next summer.

the crappy band thing is a double-edged sword. you gotta get good at playing in front of a crowd, get better at handling the butterflies in your stomach and get through terrible mistakes during a gig. but that should be kept to house parties and benefits where the bands play for free. i did like the comment about know your abilities. we know our skill level. we may be the one band that underestimates ourselves.

i will say that our band is lucky and we all have decent day-jobs and the pay isn't top priority. we do get to sell our album and one gig usually leads to another. i rarely have to actively go out and find decent gigs. we definitely won't play for nothing.

also funny this came up. we just played an event in our town where we were supposed to play right on main street where we would be with a bunch of bands. the weather got ugly and we all had to move into the local establishments and the pay was going to be a little less. we thought it would be terrible but it turned out to be one of the best shows i've ever played. the crowd was into it, we played well and the brewery loved us! now, we'll be back there again for a decent wage. this all makes up for the low pay.
 
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