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I've used a separate Preamp/Power amp rig for over 10 years, although my power amp is a lead sled. I'm curious to compare one of the new lightweight power amps to it. I can say my TH500's watts don't have the same feel and impact as my power amp's, but the TH500 still does a great job.
$390 for my rack setup as shown (pedal drawer not included). Class D/lightweight, biamped, pedal drawer, power strip, cable storage, all in a portable case. AFAIK, there isn't a $390 amp head that can do what this does.
I really need a $400 power amp to get the most out of my cabs, but this works for now.
I got you beat. Bought the preamp off a TB'r for $150. Got the power amp off MF SDOTD for $99. $249!
$390 for my rack setup as shown (pedal drawer not included). Class D/lightweight, biamped, pedal drawer, power strip, cable storage, all in a portable case. AFAIK, there isn't a $390 amp head that can do what this does.
I really need a $400 power amp to get the most out of my cabs, but this works for now.
I got you beat. Bought the preamp off a TB'r for $150. Got the power amp off MF SDOTD for $99. $249!
Hey, I was counting my rack case and power conditioner. I only have $200 between the amps!
Well, in my case.... tube power amps aren't very common, and don't save much, if any space over using an integrated unit. And tube preamps aren't usually pedal mounted. I also wouldn't want someone to be able to step on a pedal and turn off my preamp.
In fact, going separate with my rig would actually take up more space, as the power amp would be as big as my current integrated amp is, and then I'd also have to have a preamp. And that means getting some sort of case for both of them unless I want to lug two pieces around (I don't).
I'm not sure most of the "flippers" are after "perfect tone".
I think a lot of them just want to play with the newest toys.
I have to get a photo of mine sometime - I'm using a 2U Behringer XR12 mixer as the preamp and presently have it racked up with a Behringer NU4-6000 (4x1500w @ 2 ohms) and a Carvin DCM2004L (4x500w @ 4 ohms) - all in a 6U shallow plastic rack that's under 50 lbs. The Carvin amp just replaced a NU3000 that developed a bad channel 
. So, down to 8000w from the original 9000w LOL. In reality I'm running 2x1500 on bass but into two 1x 15" 8 ohm cabs so about 900w total. The other six amp channels are for tops and monitors when I'm also using it for a PA - the bass cabs become combo subs/bass-cabs and I use a monitor channel for myself, usually with just a floor monitor EQ'd to sound like the bass cabs. Just gigged it today 
. The XR12 supplies my bass with overdrive and/or compression and plenty of EQ - I only use one pedal, a Korg Pitchblack tuner battery powered.
. So, down to 8000w from the original 9000w LOL. In reality I'm running 2x1500 on bass but into two 1x 15" 8 ohm cabs so about 900w total. The other six amp channels are for tops and monitors when I'm also using it for a PA - the bass cabs become combo subs/bass-cabs and I use a monitor channel for myself, usually with just a floor monitor EQ'd to sound like the bass cabs. Just gigged it today . The XR12 supplies my bass with overdrive and/or compression and plenty of EQ - I only use one pedal, a Korg Pitchblack tuner battery powered.
- Sep 3, 2006
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XR12 as a bass pre; nice thinking outside the box! Gonna have to try it.I have to get a photo of mine sometime - I'm using a 2U Behringer XR12 mixer as the preamp and presently have it racked up with a Behringer NU4-6000 (4x1500w @ 2 ohms) and a Carvin DCM2004L (4x500w @ 4 ohms) - all in a 6U shallow plastic rack that's under 50 lbs. The Carvin amp just replaced a NU3000 that developed a bad channel
I believe the OP was generally asking about why micro power amps are not a standard, presuming that a current trend to use pedal boards is now the standard for all bass players. And, this question makes a lot of sense; IF all bass players were indeed using pedal boards. And while it may be the case that an increasing fraction of bass players are getting their sound from pedals, many players do not use pedals at all.
So, that's part of the answer. And, as other posts have pointed out, players can generally use the Effects Return jack on their micro to take signal from their pedal board.
There actually are some (very good) micro power amps out there. I posted a thread about one that I am messing with here:
The Unintended Micro
My problem is that most of the modular preamp development that is happening is aimed at the pedal board crowd. But, since I do not use pedal boards, there aren't many preamps with topologies that make sense for sitting on top of the cab.
All of which mainly shows that the market for these products is becoming more segmented. So, manufacturers are left trying to figure out what is worth their time to develop. In this case, our diversity is working against us. Perhaps, the market may eventually go in the direction of pedal boards. I personally detest the things; because, IMO, they are way too much signal chain complexity in the wrong place on a cluttered club stage where all manner of things can and do go wrong. BUT, big time YMMV. If things do go that direction, I would just put the danged thing on top of the power amp. LOL
So, that's part of the answer. And, as other posts have pointed out, players can generally use the Effects Return jack on their micro to take signal from their pedal board.
There actually are some (very good) micro power amps out there. I posted a thread about one that I am messing with here:
The Unintended Micro
My problem is that most of the modular preamp development that is happening is aimed at the pedal board crowd. But, since I do not use pedal boards, there aren't many preamps with topologies that make sense for sitting on top of the cab.
All of which mainly shows that the market for these products is becoming more segmented. So, manufacturers are left trying to figure out what is worth their time to develop. In this case, our diversity is working against us. Perhaps, the market may eventually go in the direction of pedal boards. I personally detest the things; because, IMO, they are way too much signal chain complexity in the wrong place on a cluttered club stage where all manner of things can and do go wrong. BUT, big time YMMV. If things do go that direction, I would just put the danged thing on top of the power amp. LOL
I ran an all tube preamp I built in the 90's with a big QSC amp for years. The preamp had three band passive and 4 band active EQ, along with tone switches. It seemed perfect for many years.
I now use an Ampeg PF-500. One day, I plugged in my old rack and the PF-500 to compare my "old" sound with my current.
Using an AB switch, I flipped between the tube preamp and the PF-500 using the same settings I gig with.
They sounded the same.
I'll take the 11lb compact head to the big heavy rack I used to carry.
I now use an Ampeg PF-500. One day, I plugged in my old rack and the PF-500 to compare my "old" sound with my current.
Using an AB switch, I flipped between the tube preamp and the PF-500 using the same settings I gig with.
They sounded the same.
I'll take the 11lb compact head to the big heavy rack I used to carry.
I don't think I've ever seen Aguilar anything in a store.
I don't know why more people don't go that route other than the not being knowledgable about gear. For me I'd rather has separate components that all preform one function well then something that is an "all-in-one" kind of unit. Been running a tube pre-amp (built by a friend of mine) , QSC RMX 850 and an epifani 2x12, had not had one issue other than playing around with a different pre amp tube, never has failed on a gig and i have more headroom than ill ever need.
Its amazing to watch the trends on here, markbass oh wait genz benz oh wait i mean mesa d-800 oh wait i mean genzler. The talkbass crowd is a little ridiculous but I do get a chuckle at watching these guys. Have fun with buying a new class d amp every year, ill keep my heavy transistors and tubes and 15" speakers.
Its amazing to watch the trends on here, markbass oh wait genz benz oh wait i mean mesa d-800 oh wait i mean genzler. The talkbass crowd is a little ridiculous but I do get a chuckle at watching these guys. Have fun with buying a new class d amp every year, ill keep my heavy transistors and tubes and 15" speakers.
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Interesting that this old thread got revived recently since I was thinking about this very issue. As for greater cost of the preamp/poweramp combination, not sure that holds any water. An aguilar TH preamp and a crown power amp together would put you back about $529 which is very competitive with an all-in-one class D head, plus you'd get 2 ohm capability and the option to changing the preamp if you ever wanted to.
Even if you went with the Crest power amp that was listed at the start of this thread, that would only add on another $75 or so.
Sure you could spend more, but that applies to combined pre-amp/power-amps as well.
Also, I happen to own (via craigslist trolling) one 4-ohm cab and one 8-ohm cab. Right now I can't use both. But with separate channels in a power amp, I'd have a lot more flexibility (both by running at 2.67 ohm bridged, or powering each separately with different channels). Or am I missing something?
Even if you went with the Crest power amp that was listed at the start of this thread, that would only add on another $75 or so.
Sure you could spend more, but that applies to combined pre-amp/power-amps as well.
Also, I happen to own (via craigslist trolling) one 4-ohm cab and one 8-ohm cab. Right now I can't use both. But with separate channels in a power amp, I'd have a lot more flexibility (both by running at 2.67 ohm bridged, or powering each separately with different channels). Or am I missing something?
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