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Why are Poweramps not the standard?

#103
On a dusty, long-neglected shelf, resides my decades-old image of a perfect rig (I haven't played live bass for a long time):
A blackface Bassman, complete, driving an old Ashly power amp and undefined but large speakers.

My current guitar setup is "get it close enough so the tone control on the guitar is all you need". If it were bass today, I'd do the same thing. Get it close enough in hardware so that the tone control on the instrument is all I need, plug into an old Ashly power amp, and it'll be good enough for anyone.
 
#107
honestjohnny said:
I'm curious why more bass cabs aren't sold as active cabs like PA cabs with Class D plate amps available. Then a user could do what you suggest and not have to match wattage and impedence.
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Not a lot of powered speaker cabs out there for bass. There are a fair amount of them out there for PA systems and they are a lifesaver for that because you could easily run into minimum-ohms problems quickly when adding specialty cabs to your normal set-up. Not so much of a challenge with bass gear. Not a lot of places where you see more than two cabinets used at a time and that can be accommodated by the vast majority of amps out there just fine.

I had a powered 2x15 cab (Standel SAM30b) that dared me to get a second one (I never needed it) and about the only other powered speaker at the time was the acoustic 361 (18" folded horn powered speaker cab for the acoustic 360 preamp). Of course, back then, the powered speakers were solid state amps with huge transformers and weighed a ton compared to the new Class D power-switching amps. So they were heavy cabs. You would not believe what I did to get that cab into the back of a VW bug! If it was an inch larger in any dimension, it wouldn't have fit. Back seat strapped down, front seats folded forward and moved all the way up, I could just barely get the cab in sideways and then lay it down flat in the back. Then the head would fit on one side, suitcase on the other and bass in its hard case laying across the top of the cab. Traveled all over the west and mid-west like that!
 
#108
snikroc said:
Seems many are constantly on a quest for the perfect tone. I constantly see people flipping amps each year when the new ones hit the market. I made the mistake of not researching before I bought and wanted a nice sounding boutique amp. I went with the Aguilar TH350.

Overall I am happy with the purchase. However, I wish the amp had some of the features the new Mesa has. In addition, I wish I would have purchased the TH500. Then I came across someone that used a TH Pedal and a Crown Power amp. That got me thinking about a few questions.

1. Why are rigs with a power amp and preamp pedal not that popular?

2. Why haven't we seen more micro class D power amps like the SWR amplite?

Seems like if a small high quality Class D Power amp existed, one could just buy a few preamp pedals and have a wealth of tonal opportunities. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong.

Am I missing something here?
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I think the main reason you don't see more preamp to power amp set ups is that it is just more gear to carry around. Plus, the preamps that are available may not have all the bells and whistles of the latest version of some new amp head anyhow. Add to that the fact that any preamp/power-amp head that has an effects out jack can be plugged into any power amp and work just fine and your market niche continues to shrink smaller and smaller.

Personally I like the idea of the stomp box pre-amps. If I'm playing a gig where I am restricted to using the backline and can't set up my own amp and speakers, I could take an Eden WTDI and plug it into the effects-in of any Ampeg, GK, or other amp and make it sound like my Eden set up. They are also very handy as a light-weight recording sessions set-up because I can grab my bass, put my WTDI in the case and show up. I have a DI plugged into the board and still have my familiar Eden EQ at my fingertips. If they want to mic a bass amp, again I can plug it into whatever they have and get the sound I want out of it because I'm just using the power section of their amp with the pre-amp of my stompbox.

IMHO, preamp to power amp will always be around but it is a smaller market than the all-in-one head and will continue to be so. I wouldn't be surprised to see more preamp stompboxes though.
 
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#109
ashtray said:
Besides the added steps of hooking up the preamp to power amp, there's also the setup of the two units (setting HPF, gain levels, jumping the signal to both channels, etc), and then you have a serious concern about wattage. Power amps are sold from "a bunch of power" to "a tower of power" - and with so many threads here about blowing speakers, and questions about ohms and what cabinets can be hooked up and why is there noise when I do this and that - a powered head approach is the easiest for most users. (and people still have problems)

That's why a separate pre and power amp are not "the standard". But they are certainly an option if you want to go that route - and a lot of us do!

That said, my Aguilar AG500 does everything I need in one package (shoot - its even a dual channel with overdrive and compression so no need for pedals!). I have a power amp (2 actually) but find myself just using the Aguilar 99% of the time.
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ya think? Rack pre into class D rack amp in a rack is one heavy micro amp when you find your flavour. So I am surprised the market isn't flooded with VTRM preamps after the 500w micro arrived. 500w gets the job done most anywhere.
 
#110
Rip Van Dan said:
Not a lot of powered speaker cabs out there for bass. There are a fair amount of them out there for PA systems and they are a lifesaver for that because you could easily run into minimum-ohms problems quickly when adding specialty cabs to your normal set-up. Not so much of a challenge with bass gear. Not a lot of places where you see more than two cabinets used at a time and that can be accommodated by the vast majority of amps out there just fine.

I had a powered 2x15 cab (Standel SAM30b) that dared me to get a second one (I never needed it) and about the only other powered speaker at the time was the acoustic 361 (18" folded horn powered speaker cab for the acoustic 360 preamp). Of course, back then, the powered speakers were solid state amps with huge transformers and weighed a ton compared to the new Class D power-switching amps. So they were heavy cabs. You would not believe what I did to get that cab into the back of a VW bug! If it was an inch larger in any dimension, it wouldn't have fit. Back seat strapped down, front seats folded forward and moved all the way up, I could just barely get the cab in sideways and then lay it down flat in the back. Then the head would fit on one side, suitcase on the other and bass in its hard case laying across the top of the cab. Traveled all over the west and mid-west like that!
Click to expand...

I basically do this with PA gear. You'd be surprised how flexible and relatively inexpensive the Carvin LSx1503a (3 way, CD, 6", 15"; 50, 75, 450 watts respectively) with a 3015HO upgrade and a Zoom B3 are. Even an active 15" sub and 10" top could work, with some rejiggering of the crossover point.

GK is doing this with the Micro series, I think. And Tech21nyc did it for awhile with their Power Engine line.
 
#111
dgrizzly said:
For me, portability is key.

Does anybody make small, standalone power amps? Like something the size of my GK MB800 or smaller? Because that would make me interested in a separates setup. I would use a pedal-style preamp with it.
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+1.

If they do I couldn't find it. I ended up getting a Carvin bass amp (with more useless knobs than you can poke a stick at) which was smaller, lighter, cheaper and more powerful than the smallest lightest and/or cheapest power amp I could find.

As for the rackmount crowd - great fun and all, ultimate flexibility, but if weight is an issue fuhgeddaboudit. An empty rackmount case weighs more than my amp.
 
#112
Downunderwonder said:
ya think? Rack pre into class D rack amp in a rack is one heavy micro amp when you find your flavour. So I am surprised the market isn't flooded with VTRM preamps after the 500w micro arrived. 500w gets the job done most anywhere.
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I think it comes down to packaging and convenience. And that said, a LOT of people have rack gear and power amps - so they are quite commonly used, but just maybe not more popular than an all in one unit.

The temptation for me with racks is to pile more stuff in them bc you can - outboard compressors, tuners, rack lights, eq, etc. Then it gets big and heavy again.

That said, I prefer a rack case for my amp. Protects it well, and again gives you options of adding rack effects to your rig.
 
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#116
coyoteboy said:
Stewart 1/2 racks. Either a PA50B or PA100B. Sometimes both. Sounds really good using primarily a Tonehammer pre.
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Cool, lots of my jazz guitarist friends were into into those things back when they first came out. Pedals are totally not my thing, but I'm still always interested in how other people get it done.
 
#118
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