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Why are some B strings floppy and some not?

#41
Smoove-Groove said:
View attachment 498605 What about adding tubing to the ends of strings. Doesn't this affect tension?
Click to expand...

What silky said. Tension is determined by scale length ("speaking length") of the string, between nut and saddle. Extending the non-speaking length(s) of the string does not affect its tension. It MIGHT affect its flexibility to a small extent (debatable), but not the tension required to bring the string to pitch.
 
#42
Actually, I can think of reasons to use those collar/extender thingies pictured above: one would be to adjust the tapered portion of the string -- I have tried tapered strings with too much taper after the saddle; possibly they were designed for string-thru-body (which I never do even when I could). Another might be to prevent the thickest part of the string from wrapping around the tuning peg. But those reasons got nothin' to do with tension!
 
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#44
Smoove-Groove said:
View attachment 498605 What about adding tubing to the ends of strings. Doesn't this affect tension?
Click to expand...

It only affects how much extra string you have. Useful I guess if you bought tapered strings that don't fit your bridge properly or something.

If you take a 3 meter 45 gauge bass string (if there was such a thing).... Pull it tight, put two rigid points against it 34" apart, and keep pulling the ends of the 3 meter string until the 34 inch section is an open G of a bass, the tension will be identical to that of the same string mounted on your medium scale bass guitar (assuming you cut off a meter and a half or left a lot of string length dangling).
 
#47
I'm not sure I agree that the amount of string outside of the working length (between nut and tuner and between saddle and end of bridge) doesn't affect tension. The strings are not perfectly fixed nor are they totally immobilized at these points. If they were, you couldn't tune a guitar because the string wouldn't be able to slide in the nut slot.

Maybe it is a tiny amount, but I am sure the strings vibrate outside of their working length, and whether this could translate into a change in our sense of the tension of the string is possible I think. Maybe the contribution of these portions of the string are negligible, but until someone tested it we can't really say.

I wish someone could figure out some other way to construct strings such that there was some way to achieve different pitches besides simply varying the string thickness. Different metal, or some sort of polymer core or something else in materials that changed the stiffness or vibratory properties of the string. It seems we always have to compromise....if we want a smaller scale instrument, for example, we have to settle for more floppiness in strings. Why? With all the technology and space age materials we have, it seems like there should be other ways to make strings besides wraps around a core wire.

Ok it's late and I probably sound like an idiot.
 
#48
86general said:
I'm not sure I agree that the amount of string outside of the working length (between nut and tuner and between saddle and end of bridge) doesn't affect tension. The strings are not perfectly fixed nor are they totally immobilized at these points. If they were, you couldn't tune a guitar because the string wouldn't be able to slide in the nut slot.

Maybe it is a tiny amount, but I am sure the strings vibrate outside of their working length, and whether this could translate into a change in our sense of the tension of the string is possible I think. Maybe the contribution of these portions of the string are negligible, but until someone tested it we can't really say.

I wish someone could figure out some other way to construct strings such that there was some way to achieve different pitches besides simply varying the string thickness. Different metal, or some sort of polymer core or something else in materials that changed the stiffness or vibratory properties of the string. It seems we always have to compromise....if we want a smaller scale instrument, for example, we have to settle for more floppiness in strings. Why? With all the technology and space age materials we have, it seems like there should be other ways to make strings besides wraps around a core wire.

Ok it's late and I probably sound like an idiot.
Click to expand...

It was explained to me that it doesn't affect Tension, but it does affect flexibility. That is, the string feels more taunt. (taunt., taut, whatever--less floppy).
So Everyone has been right all along in these debates, we just were using the wrong terminology.
 
#49
I personally think it's a resonance issue directly related to the inherent properties of a given neck. There are basses out there renowned for their "tight" B strings that still flap like my guitarists undershorts after his pre gig tacos and others (34 scale, 9.5 or lower radii) that sound tighter than a chipmunk butt. Each neck is different and each have a resonant frequency that will dictate the strings response when plucked.

At least that's my junk scientificals.
 
#50
86general said:
I'm not sure I agree that the amount of string outside of the working length (between nut and tuner and between saddle and end of bridge) doesn't affect tension. The strings are not perfectly fixed nor are they totally immobilized at these points. If they were, you couldn't tune a guitar because the string wouldn't be able to slide in the nut slot.

Maybe it is a tiny amount, but I am sure the strings vibrate outside of their working length, and whether this could translate into a change in our sense of the tension of the string is possible I think. Maybe the contribution of these portions of the string are negligible, but until someone tested it we can't really say.

I wish someone could figure out some other way to construct strings such that there was some way to achieve different pitches besides simply varying the string thickness. Different metal, or some sort of polymer core or something else in materials that changed the stiffness or vibratory properties of the string. It seems we always have to compromise....if we want a smaller scale instrument, for example, we have to settle for more floppiness in strings. Why? With all the technology and space age materials we have, it seems like there should be other ways to make strings besides wraps around a core wire.

Ok it's late and I probably sound like an idiot.
Click to expand...
Tungsten wrap wire would do it. But it would be expensive, might wear frets quickly and I have no idea what it would sound like. But it would add considerable mass to the string, forcing higher tension. Or allow smaller gauges at similar tension as conventional strings.
 

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