Why are TBers so against drop or detuning?

[SanDiegoHarry]

I've used a Hipshot D-tuner on my 4 strings since the mid '80s. So I get "dropping" -

What I don't get is folks who want nearly sub-sonic notes. I guess I don't get that because the music that tuning usually goes with (death/doom metal) just sounds awful to me.

B is about as low as I can imagine wanting to go - and even that low B shouldn't be played too often.

 

[ljazz]

Hipshot all the way for me. I played 5's off and on through the 90's and early 2000's. Ultimately, I don't find 5's to be useful for how I play, especially below a low D. They just never fit right to me, unless I used it purely for the occassional 5th or 6th. When it came time to thin out the heard, due to a job transfer, the 4 string P and J stayed. I tend to play a bit more up and down the neck (from playing 4's for so long), that I never really enjoyed the benefit of less postion changes that come with more strings. And adjusting to the hipshotted string is really not that difficult. I'm sitting here with my Jazz, and according to my tuner, there is no difference in intonation up the neck when set to E or D..... it's spot on all the way up. Rattle is not usually a problem, because when I buy strings, I do so knowing I'll be detuning the E string.

 

[jarrhead]

Look, some songs just require you drop tune. Especially if you want to play something on a higher string while hammering open and another fret, such as Aenima by Tool.

If you get your bass setup for Drop D or whatever you use, there will be NO issues at ALL. Given you have a leveled gauge such as Ernie Ball Hybrid Slinkies (Bigger E)

My bass is setup for C# Standard.. and yes, I use a 5er as well. Sometimes you just need to do it. Who here is gonna say "Get a 6er with a low F"? Even if, with some of the playing, doing that would be impossible. I don't have seven fingers on my left hand.

People just never need Drop tunings and therefore condone it. Do what you want.

 

[chrisisnotevil]

I play a fiver, drop tuned DADGC. So there.

I do it because the music my band plays calls for dropped tunings, I never need to go lower than D and there was no way in heck I'm playing anything other than my Jazz V. I now feel a strong need to try and work in the mostly superfluous high C on every song but other than that I'm comfortable with my bass and how I play it, and I don't let what other people think bother me. As for tension and everything, I have a higher guage E string than you'd normally use with the rest of the strings and the bass set up accordingly, hence no problems with tension or anything.

 

[Greevus]

A lot of people on here are followers. They are afraid to be truly unique, think outside the box, etc. Not all, but a lot. I love different tunings. Tell Black Sabbath they sound "silly". Come on man. Tons of bands still tune down. I'm currently playing BEAD cuz I prefer the fours. I have used everything from B to E, and love them all for different reasons. B gives me the best of all worlds--low lows and high tension. The '90s did kinda get defined by Drop D's, goatees, and fivers didn't it? Tune that bass any way you feel brother. Long live rebellion!

 

[Time Consumer]

The idea of constantly switching tunings and not having every interval of my bass in 4ths is baffling to me. I want lower notes so I got a 5 strings. I never chime in on drop tuning threads for the exact reason you said, I'd just start telling everyone to get a five, lol. At the same time though, I'm try to grasp the fact that everyone is not comfortable on a fiver. Where I come from, if your bass has less than 5 strings you're missing something. In fact, I was the only guy (that played bass somewhat seriously) I knew with a 4 string for years in my area.

I guess I can see dropping the E string one whole note but after that... well you know what I'd say .

Yeah, hit the nail on the head after I got a 5'er I couldn't go back, I think(without being insulting) it kinda comes down to skill level and left hand strength too. I know what people are saying about just downtuning instead of just getting a 5. Metal riffs can be tough without being able to use an open string for all the rooting going on, lol, it was hard when I switched to a 5 but I did it and now its second nature, also the fact that I stpped playing metal helped, lol, but my guitard writes almost everything in drop C in this band too so its still the same deal, I have no problem with having to fret the root C every once in a while.

 

[JimmyM]

It messes with the feel of the tension of the string. It messes with intonation. It messes with tone. Plus if there are a lot of low c hammering on to higher notes and such you can just drop tune the E string on the 5er if you have to.

you can always get thicker strings.

also (speaking generally, not to you), when you say "i don't get..." regarding other people's musical choices, just remember that you don't have to get it and those who do it don't really care if you do or not.

the only thing worse is looking to a site like talkbass for approval of your methods. if you want to drop tune, drop tune and don't worry about anyone thinks. nothing matters except you, your band, and your audience. stop looking for approval from other bass players. who cares what they think?

 

[alexgeddy]

Hi,
I really don;t understand the proplem... help me if i'm wrong..

If you play 4 strings and the band wants to play in drop tuning what is the big deal?? you tune eb, etc......

If you need to drop tune the e to a d great i do it all the time.

If you have a five string and you chose to play the eb on the b string great too....but imo i think the rest of the song will suffer..... you will miss open strings etc by playing it on a 5 string... Try playing stevie ray pride and joy on a 5 string tuned to standard pitch!! must sound good!!

 

[edpal]

If I could use a 5 string for all of my bands songs, I would. But given the way they are written, and the constant low C between many higher notes in many of my bands songs, it is not possible.

I'm just curious why so many here seem so high and mighty about the subject.

A five is a four stringer with a fifth string strapped to one side. You COULD just learn to ignore that string and play the top 4 unless you really need that low D - right? Us 5 players(I also play 6) figure on songs where it doesn't slow us down, and since our fingers can reach, why not have an opportunity to play things that a four string player absolutely could not play.

[Using a 6 stringer tuned BEADGC]
I have a song were I play a double stop of G#(fourth fret E) with E(fourth fret C), then I transition to A(fifth fret E) with that same E(fourth fret C). It's a very nice, chime, chime sound. A four string player could play the second one, but the first is physically impossible. Unless you have some kind of super large hands.

A lot of professional players use 6 stringers occasionaly, 5's an aweful lot and 4s for things that absolutely require the nimblest speed and playing situation. Myself, a five doesn't slow me down at all and actually fills my hand in a much more comfortable and comforting manner than a 4(I can't stand the thin neck of a Rickenbacher, though I love the tone and look of one). At 6 strings I feel I start losing some speed in some situations, but those are few and far between and I own other basses. , I'll take the ERB for 98% of my job as a bassist.

It's not really a matter of "high & mighty": ERB fans just have an excitement about the extended feature set. Like people excited about apps. for their Blackberry, power windows on their car and other things. We[ERB players] have 5 notes going lower some other cats can't hit without major difficulties...there is nothing for us to feel apoligetic about.

 

[edpal]

Hi,
I really don;t understand the proplem... help me if i'm wrong..If you have a five string and you chose to play the eb on the b string great too....but imo i think the rest of the song will suffer..... you will miss open strings etc by playing it on a 5 string... Try playing stevie ray pride and joy on a 5 string tuned to standard pitch!! must sound good!!

I'm confused - how does having an extra string force you to do anything you wouldn't do on a 4 stringer? The fifth string doesn't force itself upon you - you can ignore it whenever needed and play like you got a 4 string in hand. I don't understand the problem either.

 

[Time Consumer]

I'm confused - how does having an extra string force you to do anything you wouldn't do on a 4 stringer? The fifth string doesn't force itself upon you - you can ignore it whenever needed and play like you got a 4 string in hand. I don't understand the problem either.

Lol, yeah, it does make a great fringer rest until you need it, lol, I use mine quite often but its just another use.

 

[JimmyM]

It's not really a matter of "high & mighty": ERB fans just have an excitement about the extended feature set. Like people excited about apps. for their Blackberry, power windows on their car and other things. We[ERB players] have 5 notes going lower some other cats can't hit without major difficulties...there is nothing for us to feel apoligetic about.

being apologetic is one thing...but let's face it, many 5-stringers on here are absolutely high and mighty about it. honestly, i think you got a little high and mighty about it, too...

"why not have an opportunity to play things that a four string player absolutely could not play."

"We[ERB players] have 5 notes going lower some other cats can't hit without major difficulties..."

to which i would reply, "great...maybe i don't want to do that or don't care about it." or i would reply, "there are things you can do on a drop-tuned 4 that you can't do on a 5, too."

so be as excited and unapologetic as you want about playing a 5. but let's not pretend that a 5 is always superior to a 4.

 

[73jbass]

Hi,
I really don;t understand the proplem... help me if i'm wrong..

If you play 4 strings and the band wants to play in drop tuning what is the big deal?? you tune eb, etc......

If you need to drop tune the e to a d great i do it all the time.

If you have a five string and you chose to play the eb on the b string great too....but imo i think the rest of the song will suffer..... you will miss open strings etc by playing it on a 5 string... Try playing stevie ray pride and joy on a 5 string tuned to standard pitch!! must sound good!!

My last band did several SRV tunes ,and a few other blues covers originally tuned to Eb standard,in standard tuning. Never missed the open strings,neither did the audience. Whether it was played in the original key,or played in the original fret positions. The audience could care less whay key,or fret position it's played in.

 

[SpamBot]

being apologetic is one thing...but let's face it, many 5-stringers on here are absolutely high and mighty about it. honestly, i think you got a little high and mighty about it, too...

"why not have an opportunity to play things that a four string player absolutely could not play."

"We[ERB players] have 5 notes going lower some other cats can't hit without major difficulties..."

to which i would reply, "great...maybe i don't want to do that or don't care about it." or i would reply, "there are things you can do on a drop-tuned 4 that you can't do on a 5, too."

so be as excited and unapologetic as you want about playing a 5. but let's not pretend that a 5 is always superior to a 4.

+1. I play a 5er most of the time, and play it because I find it easier than a four. I like a two-octave reach in a single position. I like having to shift less often. I have little use for the extended low range, and would probably set my bass up E-C if I didn't have to cut another nut

From my perspective (just one of many), getting high and mighty would be ridiculous because I'm taking a shortcut by playing a 5er. I don't do it so I could do things 4-string players can't (although I could), I do it for my own comfort.



tl;dr -- I find 5ers easier to play than fours.

 

[dreadheadbass]

Explain this to me. Everytime a question is asked about drop or detuning someone has to chime in and say "Buy a 5 string".
.

its pretty normal here on the talkbass to get such useless steaming chocolate nuggets of advice to an otherwise straight forward question with a comunity this big there's bound to be someone who needs to chime in and and give you their wrath for no other reason than there's nothing better going on in their life

just ignore em and filter out the diamonds from the turds belive it or not there's some awesome tips, hints, techniques, advice, demonstrations and people on here to learn from just ignore the rest

 

[edpal]

so be as excited and unapologetic as you want about playing a 5. but let's not pretend that a 5 is always superior to a 4.

It's not a matter of being superior, but if it's isn't taking anything away, why come down hard on 5 players for liking having the option on the fly. Like I said, nobody is forcing anyone else to use a 5 stringer. But guitarists, keyboardist and singers sometimes want to change key for for their convenience. And a 5 stringer is a sweet way to do that on the fly, automatically. 5 more notes at hand is 5 notes at hand - less is not more. Is it? Now, used improperly, more could be less, I'd certainly agree to that concept.

 

[deathbassist]

I would consider buying a five string if my band played in drop A alot not that i can't play in drop A on a four because i do it all the time but other than that i think you should just play what you want don't give a **** if other people say oh you play in drop tuning buy a five string

 

[deathbassist]

athough i do want a five string!

 

[uhdinator]

Thoughts about detuning. Yes it makes your string tension less and feels different. I think Stevie Ray drop tuned to e flat
partly because of sound and partly because he used HEAVY strings to get better tone and drop tuning allowed the heavier than normal strings to bend easier also.

Here's a thought too, low E on bass is 41Hz. Most sub woofers
only go down to 30Hz. While you hear harmonics of the fundemental notes you are not getting all that is there due to
limitations of the amp and the speakers when tuning lower than low E on bass. IMO have not heard any amps that really like that much low to be honest due to this. I will research more.

 

[Burlington]

To everyone who mentions strings being floppy, intonation off etc - duh. That's a bad reason to not play in a lower tuning. There are strings made for lower tunings, and bridges are adjustable for a reason.