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Why aren't 6ers tuned in 3rds?
- Thread starter FryFunk
- Start date
OK, here's a suggestion for you: Down tune your A string on a 4 so it's a third up from E (you didn't say whether you want to do minor thirds or major thirds, but either way it's a similar situation) Now, try playing some close intervals that that tuning "unlocks"
What you'll hear is beat notes/intermodulation distortion products (there are several ways to explain this) that....sound like crap. Your rig won't like trying to play close intervals at low frequencies; the result is distinctly un-musical. Even playing a low E and an open A (a fourth up) is too close of an interval for notes down that low. Your suggested scheme makes it easier to play stuff that...once you try it...you won't want to play. Fourths works for bass because...fifths are too much of a stretch for most folks on a long scale instrument (even a "short scale bass" is a long scale instrument), and thirds are too close to be musical down that low. So.....fourths it is for most of us.
Just one person's opinion, but as a long-time 6 player, I wouldn't find a major 3rd tuning to the perfect mix of anything on the bass. You lose range, which is the main (though not the only) point of playing a 6 in the first place. Also, perfect 5th intervals would be harder to get to. The "tonal qualities" you refer to would be much less likely to be useful on a bass, where your concern is more often to cleanly distinguish notes from each other than to blur them into each other, especially in the lower registers. All those things are reasons why what you suggest isn't more common, and they don't seem that hard to understand.
That said, there's nothing wrong in principle with trying a different tuning. Try it and see if you like it. I actually use a slightly nonstandard tuning myself: I tune my highest string down to B, for BEADGB. It's sort of a guitar thing; I wouldn't know what to do with a C string.
Finally, I know a guitarist who tunes one of his guitars in 3rds. It gives him some different chord voicings. That's less like to be useful on bass, where you'll hear the beats between imperfect intervals much more strongly and where you're more likely to get mud in chords. Never say "never," though.
Having tried fifths tuning, I think tritone tuning is the way to go. The string-to-string timbre differences aren't as drastic as fifths, getting the right strings isn't as much of a hassle, and it's not quite as alien as fifths tuning if you're coming from fourths (standard). There's a thread on TB about it...
A 6 string tuned in major thirds gives you the same range (5 intervals (between successive strings) of 4 frets) as a 5 string tuned in fifths (4 intervals of 5 frets). A 6 string tuned in minor thirds (5 intervals of 3 frets) gives you the same range as a standard tuned 4 (3 intervals of 5 frets).
Is there a place where a 6 tuned in thirds might be useful? I can think of one - for a player that is missing a finger or two on his or fretting hand, it would reduce the need to shift - it might make the instrument more playable for someone with different abilities. For a guy like me with ginormous hands, no thanks.
Possibly for the same reason manhole covers are round? (Hint: It doesn't matter why, it's a standard.)
Alternate tunings for guitar like DADGAD, open D, etc. have always seemed fun to me. Especially if one spends a lot of time playing in standard, being forced to think differently can open up some interesting voicings and harmonies. I think this generally tends to work well on guitar because the range the instrument is in often makes for open chords that are pleasing to the ear.
Alternate tunings could potentially work for bass, too, and result in new explorations in bass and melodic lines. There certainly has been no shortage in experimenting with different tunings on string instruments, especially bass instruments, when looked at from a historical perspective. If you want to do it, go for it! I do see limits and redundancies to tuning in thirds though. If it were me and I wanted something to experiment with, I've always been curious about something like B-E-A-D-F#-B on a six string bass - maybe call it "contra baritone" tuning?
Alternate tunings could potentially work for bass, too, and result in new explorations in bass and melodic lines. There certainly has been no shortage in experimenting with different tunings on string instruments, especially bass instruments, when looked at from a historical perspective. If you want to do it, go for it! I do see limits and redundancies to tuning in thirds though. If it were me and I wanted something to experiment with, I've always been curious about something like B-E-A-D-F#-B on a six string bass - maybe call it "contra baritone" tuning?
You can tune your bass in 1/4 tones if that is what floats your boat. I did that with a 6 string guitar and played it with a bottle neck just for the heck of it back in the 70's when I was into allosteric music like Harry Parch. My point is to tune your bass in any manner you want if it helps you achieve your goal.
Two of my guitars pretty much live in DADGAD (6- and 12-string); the other two are usually in standard (concert pitch) tuning.
Well, I’m now up. But, not finished my first coffee.
Good morning EdwardofHuncote!
Thirds tuning…
With classical upright bass they call that Viennese tuning. It works fantastic for some old pieces. But it is not 3rds across the board. Instead of EADG, the bass is tuned A-D-F#-A. A five string would have a low F string. Some will play a 3 string bass tuned in 3rds for specific pieces. Virtuoso Rinat Ibragimov is one, look him up on YouTube for some mind blowing performances.
Fifths tuning for upright has a very specific purpose in classical playing. You don’t need a C extension to get the low written notes. The low notes are big and beautiful. For jazz I do not prefer 5ths tuning.
By the way, an upright with a C extension is no longer tuned in 4ths as the low C to low E is a third.
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Turnaround
Commercial User
I think it's a good idea. I like to tune all my basses in augmented thirds.
I have this constant subtle desire to set my 4 string up as CGDA but I, too, rely so much on my 'automatic knowledge'. Stuff that I feel in the moment without 'knowing' it.
FYI: Only type 2 covers are round. Type 1 covers are either square or rectangular, at least in the US.
This is the real hot topic of this discussion
devnulljp
Supporting Member
Tune it any way you want and give it a go. I play with banjo player who plays in a different tuning for every key, and I've played with guitarists who use multiple tunings. I have a kinda hard time keeping it straight in my head where things are when flipping between tunings other than maybe dropD, and my 10string Chapman Stick tuned in reciprocal bass with the low end tuned backwards in 5ths is a wrestling match. But, I do tune my upright to E-G-D-G for one tune because it gives me a low G drone that's convenient. When I had a 6-string bass, I tuned it with a high B, so BEADGB, more like a guitar.
Robert Fripp is known for his new standard tuning in 5ths, C-G-D-A-E-G.
No reason at all not to experiment. So why not give it a go and report back?
Robert Fripp is known for his new standard tuning in 5ths, C-G-D-A-E-G.
No reason at all not to experiment. So why not give it a go and report back?
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I didn't think much of thirds tuning before. Fourths and fifths are good intervals to have between strings, being the next most important intervals after unison and octave. It also looked like a downgrade from all fourths on bass guitar with less range across strings.
But then I tried tritone tuning a few months ago and was genuinely surprised by it. You can do power chords in an almost barred position across any set of strings, and evil sounding phrygian, locrian, and octatonic licks come naturally. As for practicality, there is at least one band that used all tritone tuning (thanks @lucas303 for the recommendation!) and they've made some real interesting stuff with it. So maybe thirds tuning can yield interesting results as well.
And speaking of fifths tuning and the possible impracticality of a sixer, I combined both with a sixer tuned in fifths. Ridiculous, over-the-top, and totally unnecessary? Maybe, but I have a lot of fun with it!
-Cal.
But then I tried tritone tuning a few months ago and was genuinely surprised by it. You can do power chords in an almost barred position across any set of strings, and evil sounding phrygian, locrian, and octatonic licks come naturally. As for practicality, there is at least one band that used all tritone tuning (thanks @lucas303 for the recommendation!) and they've made some real interesting stuff with it. So maybe thirds tuning can yield interesting results as well.
And speaking of fifths tuning and the possible impracticality of a sixer, I combined both with a sixer tuned in fifths. Ridiculous, over-the-top, and totally unnecessary? Maybe, but I have a lot of fun with it!
-Cal.
Not so new, actually, for him.
Hideyo, Paul, and Bert (California Guitar Trio) learned 5ths tuning from Robert many years ago; that is their standard tuning.
Why not have an 88 string bass tuned in half steps?
I tried that for a while 20 years ago. You have to move your hand more. It might work on a shorter scale better, and with custom strings. I'd do it again except it would be a lot of learning, and I'd need to assemble the custom strings to make the tension work.
