Why aren't there any degree programs for the Blues?

[dkelley]

I had 11 years of $1400/month loan repayment that begs to differ

I have 2 degrees in music, classical, jazz, "new music" (in the classical meaning - a.k.a. john cage, etc).

Blues scales were like day 2 of some group piano class. Blues music was something that most of the folks who got into the program had been doing 10 years prior. Many of us still are blues musicians in many ways... but the idea of school was to move past the rudimentary knowledge and expand our horizons.

So the fundamental answer to the OP's question is no. Yes it's touch upon, but as a foundation to build off of, just like major and minor scales, J.S.Bach, avoidance of parallel fifths, and so forth.

 

[ElMon]

I still contend that the on-the-bandstand, working it out with players who do know the tradition as an oral/aural tradition is the best way to learn the feel ... and this music is all about the feel ... but I do like the academic study angle.

Thus, check these out:


Amiri Barka/LeRoi Jones. Very interesting read on blues/jazz:
https://www.amazon.com/Blues-People-Negro-Music-America/dp/068818474X


Good fun and a good way to take the deep dive into some obscure blues albums.
https://www.amazon.com/Crumbs-Heroe...s=r+crumb+blues&qid=1576255821&s=books&sr=1-1

And ... this entire album really got me assessing how, IME/in my area, most of the Jazzers who claim that their knowledge of jazz means they inherently understand the blues simply do not ... as compared to the foundational members of the jazz scene:

https://www.amazon.com/Blues-Roots-CHARLES-MINGUS/dp/B000002I4Q

In particular, this track:



At about 30-seconds in, Mingus takes ... and again, this is IMO ... the best solo I've heard that encapsulates emotive/raw/sloppy blues phrasing with jazz virtuosity.

I just don't hear this a lot these days, and never locally. I try to bring this kind of thing on the few-and-far-between jazz gigs I get, but IME the 'schooled' Jazz guys aren't even in the zipcode of understanding that kind of feel.

 

[BOOG]

I still contend that the on-the-bandstand, working it out with players who do know the tradition as an oral/aural tradition is the best way to learn the feel ... and this music is all about the feel ... but I do like the academic study angle.

Thus, check these out:


Amiri Barka/LeRoi Jones. Very interesting read on blues/jazz:
https://www.amazon.com/Blues-People-Negro-Music-America/dp/068818474X


Good fun and a good way to take the deep dive into some obscure blues albums.
https://www.amazon.com/Crumbs-Heroe...s=r+crumb+blues&qid=1576255821&s=books&sr=1-1

And ... this entire album really got me assessing how, IME/in my area, most of the Jazzers who claim that their knowledge of jazz means they inherently understand the blues simply do not ... as compared to the foundational members of the jazz scene:

https://www.amazon.com/Blues-Roots-CHARLES-MINGUS/dp/B000002I4Q

In particular, this track:



At about 30-seconds in, Mingus takes ... and again, this is IMO ... the best solo I've heard that encapsulates emotive/raw/sloppy blues phrasing with jazz virtuosity.

I just don't hear this a lot these days, and never locally. I try to bring this kind of thing on the few-and-far-between jazz gigs I get, but IME the 'schooled' Jazz guys aren't even in the zipcode of understanding that kind of feel.

Wow, great recording! Thanks for that little bit of excellence to go with my coffee today

 

[Wisebass]

Hi OogieWaWa

Mojo thread! 10 pages and coming!

Arguably it may be shy on the technical side, but still. What, maybe we're not "good enough" for the university types?

You can study a lot of trendy things that are as "shy" as the blues in today' s universities and colleges!

The blues as a music form is just not "hip" enough.

And the history part…

A lot of blues history is lost forever.

Most blues music was never recorded and never written in notes.

It was performed live by poor, mostly non educated afro american musicians

for a poor afro american audience in a race segregated country

and was nearly forgotten before some young musicians from...

That's the history part. (Interesting but not very popular either)
​

I know why. It's because the idea of making an academic exercise out of something like the blues seems like squeezing the life out of something that's fundamentally organic and home-grown.

The blues is not a painting, which can be reproduced, exercised with a certain technic that is learnable.

It is more like performance art (that's what it has in common with Jazz)

the act of creating (jamming) and the interaction between musicians

is as important as the result (which can vary a lot )

They do ask you to show your degree at an audition.

Not in a paper form though.

Nah! Just play what you hear! (that's when you realize it )


greetings

Wise(b)ass

 

[OogieWaWa]

Thank you all for the bevy or responses. There's a buttload of information to absorb from the resources mentioned. I'll have to take it all in and do some serious pondering on where to go from here. Thanks again (and anybody I missed.)

Its a never ending study.

There's a pretty good reading list here if you want to strike out on your own.

and it's possible that just talking with cats like that is the sort of thing a would-be blues historian needs to either learn a degree's worth or even establish a blues history study program.

This is a really interesting Blues podcast

"Folk Blues" by Silverman is an excellent source I picked up long ago in a Borders Bookstore

What I have done is read biographies of the blues greats (Little Walter, Buddy Guy, Junior Wells, Muddy Waters).

 

[ElMon]

If no one has mentioned it, Alan Lomax's early 1900s recordings ... which I believe are available online through the Library of Congress ... are worth checking out. There are some field songs I remember hearing, from people who were either themselves slaves or 1st generation, and they are haunting.

 

[Cave Puppy]

Is there not a Ken Burn's Blues Doco? If there is then watch that. It'll have all you need to know.

 

[LBS-bass]

If no one has mentioned it, Alan Lomax's early 1900s recordings ... which I believe are available online through the Library of Congress ... are worth checking out. There are some field songs I remember hearing, from people who were either themselves slaves or 1st generation, and they are haunting.

THAT's the other guy I was trying to remember. Thanks!

 

[jerry]

Is there not a Ken Burn's Blues Doco? If there is then watch that. It'll have all you need to know.

Martin Scorsese has one.

 

[AboutSweetSue]

Listening to these field songs reminds me of the way Robert Johnson played his guitar, like his guitar was singing as multiple individuals in some sort of call and response fashion.

 

[design]

I haven’t read the whole thread but would you be interested in a Major in Performance and a Minor in American Roots Music at Berklee?
Minor in American Roots Music | Berklee College of Music

 

[Watchootognbout]

Nah! Just play what you hear! (that's when you realize it )


greetings

Wise(b)ass

That's what I mean.
Your "Degree"

 

[fdeck]

I know a lot of academics, including people in academic music ranging from students to professors. Something I've observed is that a new program or specialty within an existing program often starts out as the brainchild of a single individual. That person gets the idea, then starts gathering the pieces needed to put it together, while also promoting it and getting institutional support. They have to overcome a lot of skepticism, often in the form of: "Why does this need to be an academic discipline?" If a college agrees to launch a program, it's because they've figured out how they will attract students, grants, and so forth.

So, if there's no academic blues program, the reason is probably just that nobody's had a personal mission to create one.

At one time, people wondered why jazz needs to be an academic discipline. A few courageous people formed jazz studies departments. The fact that jazz is still a separate thing, offered at just a few of the bigger universities, suggests that either it's still gaining acceptance, or they've run out of qualified students.

Making things worse, right now there are a number of dark clouds for arts education. The economics keep getting worse and worse. States are under political pressure to focus on money disciplines such as STEM. Overall college enrollment is declining right now, following a mini baby boom in the early 2000's, and in part because students are questioning the whole college debt thing.

 

[OptimalOptimus]

Blues is all about the lyrics and the guitar solo.

the pentatonic Line with the blue note and the basic chord structure is everwhere.

it is what led to Swing and Jazz and of course Rock’N’Roll

so yeah

more interesting as an history class than anything else

 

[okcrum]

And ... this entire album really got me assessing how, IME/in my area, most of the Jazzers who claim that their knowledge of jazz means they inherently understand the blues simply do not ... as compared to the foundational members of the jazz scene:

https://www.amazon.com/Blues-Roots-CHARLES-MINGUS/dp/B000002I4Q

In particular, this track:



At about 30-seconds in, Mingus takes ... and again, this is IMO ... the best solo I've heard that encapsulates emotive/raw/sloppy blues phrasing with jazz virtuosity.

I just don't hear this a lot these days, and never locally. I try to bring this kind of thing on the few-and-far-between jazz gigs I get, but IME the 'schooled' Jazz guys aren't even in the zipcode of understanding that kind of feel.

Mingus' autobiography Beneath The Underdog is a pretty good read too.

 

[D.M.N.]

I'm sure it's been said, but you can't teach the blues, you have to feel the blues. You can learn the progressions, you can learn the riffs, but it's not the same as feeling it.

(Edit: as someone who took classes on music in college)

 

[JimmyM]

I'm sure it's been said, but you can't teach the blues, you have to feel the blues. You can learn the progressions, you can learn the riffs, but it's not the same as feeling it.

(Edit: as someone who took classes on music in college)

Tell you what...play in a blues/jazz band with guys who studied theory but played all kinds of stuff along the way and they expect you to feel the blues AND the jazz. And they expect you to speak intelligently about it and understand all their secret little jazz cat code words

 

[hbarcat]

At one time, people wondered why jazz needs to be an academic discipline. A few courageous people formed jazz studies departments. The fact that jazz is still a separate thing, offered at just a few of the bigger universities, suggests that either it's still gaining acceptance, or they've run out of qualified students.

There is a community college near me that, for whatever reason, has always had an abundance of performance music related classes. When I attended in the late 80's, I joined their "Rock Music Ensemble" and also "Small Jazz Combo"

Other classes included "Big Band Ensemble", "Steel Drum Band", "Electronic Music Performance Group" and "Blues Improvisation Combo" as well as instruction in various classical and popular instruments and various vocal styles, plus the standard orchestral and choral groups.

Music performance was a specialty of this college and both the Big Band and Steel Drum Band were, and still remain, nationally recognized.

I studied engineering and took some music classes at a university with 35,000 students and I think I got a lot more out of the much, much cheaper community college experience. At least music wise.

 

[Mushroo]

I'm sure it's been said, but you can't teach the blues, you have to feel the blues. You can learn the progressions, you can learn the riffs, but it's not the same as feeling it.

(Edit: as someone who took classes on music in college)

Respectfully, it just sounds like your college had a bad professor. A good teacher can teach the blues, no problem.

 

[SactoBass]

George Carlin offered a perspective on playing the blues in the vid below. As a white person myself, I liked what he had to say. For the record, I never ever EVER play the blues (unless of course Banana Republic runs out of khakis on the same day that the espresso machine is jammed.)

My favorite quote of his in this vid is:

"I'll tell ya a little secret about the blues. It's not enough to know which notes to play. You gotta know *why* they need to be played."

Warning: this video contains some foul language, so please do not listen to this video if you are offended by the use of foul language...