Why aren't there more 2x10 + 18 cabinets?

[agedhorse]

Weren't they 8 holes per column ie ascii? I only used cards for a few months...

12 per column 0-9 plus 11 & 12. There were many different versions however, but I'm remembering extended ASCII

 

[Deleted member 165050]

12 per column 0-9 plus 11 & 12. There were many different versions however, but I'm remembering extended ASCII

Found a pic

 

[12BitSlab]

Weren't they 8 holes per column ie ascii? I only used cards for a few months...

There is more to life than ASCII. IBM mainframes use EBCIDIC as the encoding standard. The standard cards have 12 rows. The top two were zone punches.

BTW, there are not 80 columns on an 80 column card. There are 81. The 81st column is a verify punch typically used by data entry operations.

Early in my career, I worked on systems that didn't even use an 8 bit byte. They used a 12 Bit Slab (hence my handle). In 12 bits, one could store 2 6-bit alpha characters or 3 4-bit digits. This was used on an NCR 315 system. Those were used before the invention of disk drives (or DASD as IBM likes to call it).

We had 2 of the NCR 315's. Each system had 10K words. Yes, 10k -- not 10M or 10G. We were able to shut one machine down and bank switch the memory over to the other machine so we could run large sorts on a full blown 20K word machine.

 

[eriky4003]

My name's Simpson not Samson!

Simpson...eh?
At 74 lbs that is a bit of a lift, but I stand by my assertion.

 

[ahc]

Found a pic

 

[Gizmot]

Pretty sure that 800 hz requires the speaker to move at the same rate regardless of the speaker size.

The problem is that 18s are slower than 10s. Its because of the size and weight of the cone - that's simple physics. A sports car and a pickup truck can have the same engine - which one goes faster? The one with the smallest moving mass.

 

[agedhorse]

The problem is that 18s are slower than 10s. Its because of the size and weight of the cone - that's simple physics. A sports car and a pickup truck can have the same engine - which one goes faster? The one with the smallest moving mass.

It is simple physics, especially when all the factors are included...

The motor is stronger in a driver with a heavier moving mass, otherwise the damping becomes unworkable.

The strength of the motor to moving mass ratio determine the maximum slew rate of the diaphragm, at lower frequencies the required slew rate is lower, at higher powers the slew rate becomes greater.

In HF drivers, even with very low moving mass, the accelerations are much greater due to the higher frequency, thus the slew rate requirements are higher. This is why you see such high motor strengths in HF drivers... not because of the moving mass but because of the accelerations involved. The relationships are below:

P = W / T

P = F x V

P = M x A x V

What I think you are trying to say is that at some point, as the frequency increases, there is no longer the system bandwidth, or available slew rate to accurately reproduce the signal. There is also group delay, or propagation delay (depending on your perspective), but this is not the same thing as being slower. Every mechanical system has this variable.

If the driver was in fact slower, the frequency would fall as the signal was reproduced, which of course can not occur.

 

[GwenOnBass]

im trying to remember what incredible processing speeds i had when i thought i was the coolest kid in town with my IBM XT maybe 4.7 mhz holy smokes!!! that is fast
i had 2 floppy drives whoaaa. and even had dual hard drives absolutely unheard of. i think each drive had a whole smoking 10 mb hard drive.
dont forget that ridiculous expensive Quadram that was like 384 KB of ram. ohh geeez its ridiculous to think that even a garbage garbage cell phone absolutely blows that away by a landslide. or even when all the big wigs had there ridiculous expensive cigar locker at the cigar club cause they had a this wierd new thing called the internet and for 2 grand a month membership fee you could send......emails whooooaaaa. and smoke the most expensive cigar on the planet. there was even a rich doctor there that had a Phone!!! in his car. that is just crazy talk

/join GeekClub where $FirstComputer = PDP-8 + ASR 33

And I believed my 2 1x15s were a pain to haul. Actually, they were a pain to haul. A 2x10-18 would have done me in.

 

[Rick James]

The problem is that 18s are slower than 10s. Its because of the size and weight of the cone - that's simple physics.

That's logical, but incorrect. The force provided by the motor and voice coil so dwarfs the cone mass that there's no difference in the speed that the cone moves. It's a good thing too, since the cone has to move at the precise frequency that the input signal does, otherwise a 'slow speaker' might be playing a D when you're playing an E, and it might be two beats behind your playing too.

The answer to the original post is simple. What it took an 18 and two tens to do in 1980 can be done with a fifteen and a six today.

 

[phillybass101]

Because Bass has been infiltrated with wimps LOL!!!! Us the and Drummers used to be the MEN of the Band. And everybody else in the Band disappeared at Load-In and Load-Out. I still remember when getting help with my Bass Rig was the Norm. Now it's like every man for himself except for maybe the PA. Ah the days of U-Haul rentals and having a Band Bus like the Partridge Family. Yup size and weight killed the concept. I saw a Band where the Bass player had one of those Peavey 210/18 Cabs and I thought it sounded good. But I still believe in the Bass being the Elephant in the room. After all Mel Schacher is still one of my Favorite Bassists. You knew he was there!!!

 

[BogeyBass]

Transient response can effect a 10", 15" or 18" its not the " size" of the speaker its just its ability to deal with transients. Transient can be a sudden change in not only frequency, but can also be a sudden change in volume or sound pressure. specially in music with not only the type of complicated waveforms a string instrument can produce. its also the speed or repetition of fast notes that not only can change in volume but also pitch. and likewise sudden change from fast to slow. slow fast etc etc often changing in pitch as well. so its just a transient nightmare lol

so the term used as a speaker is " slow" always causes alot of technical arguments. no the speaker isnt going slower. its reproducing the pitch of the notes just fine. obviously if it didn't everything would sound out of tune. listening to just recorded music poor transient, can be obvious or likewise not as obvious. but a player who is actually playing through a system and well aware of the exact moment he is making the note attacks, or controlling the dynamics with his hands. any type of poor transient is gonna to be obvious to the player. and seems to be often described as "slow" when you could say the transient response is poor. its not always speaker size, it can also be related to the quality or design of the speaker and likewise the enclosure type its in, and how poorly misunderstood reflex systems are and how they effect transient response.

 

[phillybass101]

And it still sounds like Boom to the Audience . You can have the most technically proficient Rig in the Universe and the FOH will have you sounding like it's a Reggae Gig LOL!!!!

 

[BogeyBass]

very true, tone is in the hands though
and the players ability to control it or just simply the difference between poor players and good players,

 

[Gizmot]

That's logical, but incorrect. The force provided by the motor and voice coil so dwarfs the cone mass that there's no difference in the speed that the cone moves. It's a good thing too, since the cone has to move at the precise frequency that the input signal does, otherwise a 'slow speaker' might be playing a D when you're playing an E, and it might be two beats behind your playing too.

The answer to the original post is simple. What it took an 18 and two tens to do in 1980 can be done with a fifteen and a six today.

We have a difference of opinion. You're talking about the movement of the cone to push air at a given frequency and what I'm talking about is the transient capability and time domain response (the ability to accurately reproduce the waveform of the signal). If I said that larger cones are sloppier, would be more plausible?

 

[LowDownHawkeye]

Back in the day I used to write Fortran code for an IBM 360/195 that took up half a floor of a large building. No one does that these days I think.

Except that "they" do. It is common for scientific simulation programs (for example, the leading climate models) to be written in Fortran and to run on systems at computing centers that take up a large fraction of a floor (such as at the US dept of energy's office of science computing centers or the current two top500 leaders in China).

 

[CryingBass]

Back in the day I used to write Fortran code for an IBM 360/195 that took up half a floor of a large building. No one does that these days I think.

I still do. My 3270 terminal sits on top of my Acoustic 360

 

[agedhorse]

We have a difference of opinion. You're talking about the movement of the cone to push air at a given frequency and what I'm talking about is the transient capability and time domain response (the ability to accurately reproduce the waveform of the signal). If I said that larger cones are sloppier, would be more plausible?

This is true ONLY if the slew rate of the signal exceeds the maximum slew rate of the transducer at the maximum amplitude of the signal. Strong motors are used to avoid these issues within the intended bandwidth the speaker is designed to be used within.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

Except that "they" do. It is common for scientific simulation programs (for example, the leading climate models) to be written in Fortran and to run on systems at computing centers that take up a large fraction of a floor (such as at the US dept of energy's office of science computing centers or the current two top500 leaders in China).

Way off topic from 18" drivers I know, but anyway I saw somewhere that you can get OO Fortran these days and even integrate it with Visual Studio. Not sure I'm that nostalgic for an old language!

 

[dbase]

Because we have learned more about proper cabinet design and newer more able drivers make the concept absurd. 2x10s where one or two midrange drivers would outperform made little sense.

My very first amp had an 18” Tannoy driver, VOX AC50 foundation. in actuality it sounded like crap. I’ve also had to use a 2x18 and that sounded even worse. I have played through one of those Peavey cabs and I thought it sounded terrible.

Reminds me of one of the worse Vox amps I've ever owned and I've had two or three of them... The T60.

 

[dbase]

Apparently no one wants them, this was on the side of the road in the garbage in Rochester NY... I couldn't help myself. It's in my garage now. (Old peavey 1810)

View attachment 1165203

Lay it on it's back and build an outhouse around it