Why can't I find a filter pedal that I like?

[cheapbasslovin]

Because... Filters are really sensitive and just when you think you have it dialed, you bump your volume knob; or the rest of your band turns up a little so you need to dig in a bit more; or you try to swap something in your chain; or any one of a hundred other things which slightly changes the response.

When you combine that with the fact that slight differences in design or implementation cause pretty notable sonic effect and the real tone snob can get a bit finicky about finding that perfect sound. IMO.

 

[Matthijs]

Because... Filters are really sensitive and just when you think you have it dialed, you bump your volume knob; or the rest of your band turns up a little so you need to dig in a bit more; or you try to swap something in your chain; or any one of a hundred other things which slightly changes the response.

When you combine that with the fact that slight differences in design or implementation cause pretty notable sonic effect and the real tone snob can get a bit finicky about finding that perfect sound. IMO.

This is a very important part IMHO. I occasionally use an ancient mutron III, but when I do I have it hooked up to a volume pedal and have the signal splitted. It allows me to blend between the wet and the dry, but also to adjust how the pedal is loaded according to circumstances, without it having too much of an effect on the overall volume.

 

[gregmon79]

I too have had issues with finding a good filter. I am not big on filters that much now a days, but that doesnt mean I dont want a really good one. I had a Manta, would still have it if I hadnt of needed an extra EQ at the time, but I flipped it for an SA PEQ. But I did like the Manta. I am going to look into that WeeWah too, sounds cool. And if JC from Tool is using one, I think I may like it.

 

[Dave W]

That WeeWah is awfully wee . Do they actually get powered by a watch battery? The PocketPus (a Tone Butcher pedal) has one on the side...
I forgot to mention in the OP that I had a BR-2 as well.
The Manta coupled with the SA PEQ would probably be pretty cool. Setting different presets for different basses would probably be useful. Hmmm...
I just nabbed the Agent 00Funk from the classifieds as well. If anybody has a Brown Dog they feel like parting with please shoot me a PM.

EDIT: Holy crap I have a lot of incoming pedals right now.
Filter Twin yesterday
Fairfield Barbershop
Fulltone Bass-Drive Mosfet
Agent 00Funk
and probably more....

 

[bassmusic17]

That WeeWah is awfully wee . Do they actually get powered by a watch battery? The PocketPus (a Tone Butcher pedal) has one on the side...
I forgot to mention in the OP that I had a BR-2 as well.
The Manta coupled with the SA PEQ would probably be pretty cool. Setting different presets for different basses would probably be useful. Hmmm...
I just nabbed the Agent 00Funk from the classifieds as well. If anybody has a Brown Dog they feel like parting with please shoot me a PM.

EDIT: Holy crap I have a lot of incoming pedals right now.
Filter Twin yesterday
Fairfield Barbershop
Fulltone Bass-Drive Mosfet
Agent 00Funk
and probably more....

Yes they are very wee! The pocket pus is the only one I believe that is powered off of a watch battery. The rest have 9volt power. Including the Pocket Pus Plus. They also do custom pedals and you can pick two circuits to be put into one pedal and it comes out to be a lot cheaper than buying them individually. Definitely some weird unique looking pedals for sure!

Also I should note that if you contact the builder he can make adjustments to the pedals that best fit your needs. That is if you have an idea of exactly what you want.

 

[cnltb]

Are there any truly original ones out there that are not clones of someone else's work?

 

[hennessybass]

I'm not much of an FX guy... I dabble sometimes, but an envelope filter is probably my "if you could only have one pedal" pedal. I've sampled a few. Here are my thoughts for what they are worth. YMMV.

MXR - the purple one - Cool, and easy to dial in. Very wet, but too many lazer sounds. Very processed and not very natural sounding, but a good pedal if you are going for more of that synth type thing.

DOD FX25 - apparently there is a big difference from the old ones (avacado green = good) to the new ones (sparkle green = bad). I got one of the newer ones used for real cheap and did not like it. Massive low end, and really hard to get the filter to open. I did not find it to have good touch sensitivity. I gave it to my guitar player, and it sounds pretty good for him. Cool if you are going for a dub / synth / massive low end thing - IMO. Other people love them.

EHX micro Q-torn - pretty cool. A bit of the lazer beam thing going on, but you can kind of dial that out a little bit. This one sounds pretty nice and has nice response, but you kind of have to find a sweet spot with it or else you will get some not so great resonant peaks. Middle of the road - not bad.

The winner for me is the 3 leaf Proton. By a mile. Hands down. Very transparent. Easy to dial in. Great touch sensitivity - you can "play the filter". Great range of sounds. Doesn't get the nasty resonant peaks. Very wet and funky. I have the old V1 pedal that has the two different filters. The BP or HP is pretty useless and has been removed on the V2 and replaced with some other control.

I just got a Keeley Nutrino - which I have not even hooked up yet. When I do, I will probably do a A/B compare thread with my proton. It looks to be about the same as the proton in terms of design and features... they are both Mutron III clones.

Have also sampled the Aguilar - cool, but pretty subtle and the up and down filter at the same time is kind of weird - cool sounds, but not really what I was looking for.

Sampled a Malekko E Filter -- tiny little pedal. Pretty cool. Good sounds. two knobs. Easy to dial in a sound. Nice touch sensitivity. Wet and funky.

Played a Bass Balls once -- kind of in a different category and didn't really interest me much. All lazers.

Filters are such a personal thing, because it's all about how your hands interact with your bass and the filter. You really do have to "play the filter." Anyway,,, Just all IME and IMO.

 

[bassmusic17]

Are there any truly original ones out there that are not clones of someone else's work?

I think you just answered your own question. Ba DA Boom!

Seriously though, there are a lot of clones based on the Mutron especially, but that is because it has been put in such high regard by the bass community. If that is what most look for then that will be what you find. I am sure there are originals out there. Everything gets recycled at some point. Music, Movies, Fashion etc.. why not pedals too?

 

[cnltb]

I think you just answered your own question. Ba DA Boom!

Seriously though, there are a lot of clones based on the Mutron especially, but that is because it has been put in such high regard by the bass community. If that is what most look for then that will be what you find. I am sure there are originals out there. Everything gets recycled at some point. Music, Movies, Fashion etc.. why not pedals too?

That's my impression too...hence the question.
I am looking for a filter too and think that I'll wait fro Mr. Beigel to come out with more...rather than having to seel whatever I get before that. It's more a 'want' than a 'need ' thing for me.
If I 'had' to get one now I think it'd be the proton.

 

[MSUsousaphone]

I loooooove my Robot Factory Brain Freeze. But yeah. It would be easier if stores had a house band we could audition pedals with. Lol. Too many times I fall in love with something and it sounds totally different in a mix.

I look for less quack and more syrupy tones I can combine with a fuzz and control with an expression pedal.

 

[Jared Lash]

Are there any truly original ones out there that are not clones of someone else's work?

There are lots of original designs around though in terms of actual filter topology there's really nothing new under the sun. But the Xerograph, Proton, SA BEF & Manta are all new designs.

I'm not much of an FX guy... I dabble sometimes, but an envelope filter is probably my "if you could only have one pedal" pedal. I've sampled a few. Here are my thoughts for what they are worth. YMMV.

MXR - the purple one - Cool, and easy to dial in. Very wet, but too many lazer sounds. Very processed and not very natural sounding, but a good pedal if you are going for more of that synth type thing.

DOD FX25 - apparently there is a big difference from the old ones (avacado green = good) to the new ones (sparkle green = bad). I got one of the newer ones used for real cheap and did not like it. Massive low end, and really hard to get the filter to open. I did not find it to have good touch sensitivity. I gave it to my guitar player, and it sounds pretty good for him. Cool if you are going for a dub / synth / massive low end thing - IMO. Other people love them.

EHX micro Q-torn - pretty cool. A bit of the lazer beam thing going on, but you can kind of dial that out a little bit. This one sounds pretty nice and has nice response, but you kind of have to find a sweet spot with it or else you will get some not so great resonant peaks. Middle of the road - not bad.

The winner for me is the 3 leaf Proton. By a mile. Hands down. Very transparent. Easy to dial in. Great touch sensitivity - you can "play the filter". Great range of sounds. Doesn't get the nasty resonant peaks. Very wet and funky. I have the old V1 pedal that has the two different filters. The BP or HP is pretty useless and has been removed on the V2 and replaced with some other control.

I just got a Keeley Nutrino - which I have not even hooked up yet. When I do, I will probably do a A/B compare thread with my proton. It looks to be about the same as the proton in terms of design and features... they are both Mutron III clones.

Have also sampled the Aguilar - cool, but pretty subtle and the up and down filter at the same time is kind of weird - cool sounds, but not really what I was looking for.

Sampled a Malekko E Filter -- tiny little pedal. Pretty cool. Good sounds. two knobs. Easy to dial in a sound. Nice touch sensitivity. Wet and funky.

Played a Bass Balls once -- kind of in a different category and didn't really interest me much. All lazers.

Filters are such a personal thing, because it's all about how your hands interact with your bass and the filter. You really do have to "play the filter." Anyway,,, Just all IME and IMO.

Just a couple notes. I for one didn't see a huge difference in tone from most of the models of the DOD FX25. The old Kermit green ones were my favorite by a small margin but the difference wasn't night and day. I DID think the blend circuit on the later versions was terrible though. To me what the FX25 really needed was a GOOD clean blend to prevent it from thinning out too much and a limiter to handle the big volume spikes. One of my absolute favorite filter tones but it was a difficult little beast to tame. And yeah, great for that Bill Laswell closed filter dub tone.

I like the mini Q-Tron. Cool filter although it also gets volume spikes. Personally I thought the old big box ones sounded significantly better but were just too much of a PITA to put on a pedalboard.

I agree on the Proton being a great filter. But neither it or the Keeley are true MuTron III clones. Spencer has said that he DID tune his circuit by ear to get as close as he could to the sound of his original MuTron III. I dig the 3Leaf filters (Proton and the Groove Regulator/Wonderlove) but IMO it isn't a dead nuts ringer for an actual MuTron. I've never played the Keeley so I can't say how close it gets.

I want to pick up an Aguilar one of these days as I dig the dual filter setup. Cool for more vocal like tones. But you CAN dial it in so it's just up filter or just down filter if you want.

I think the Malekko is based on the old DOD 440 just like the Boomstick Bottom Feeder. To me more of a "spacey" filter than a "funky" filter.

The Bassballs really needs the trim pot mod and a clean blend to be really useful in my opinion. But the twin filter setup gives it a signature tone. Robot Factory at one point had a "Worm Hole" filter which seemed like a hot rodded and much improved Bassballs but I never got to try it. Since their Brain Freeze (and big brother Photron) and Meatwad (Meatball clone) were really solid I wish I'd have been able to check that one out too.

I think you just answered your own question. Ba DA Boom!

Seriously though, there are a lot of clones based on the Mutron especially, but that is because it has been put in such high regard by the bass community. If that is what most look for then that will be what you find. I am sure there are originals out there. Everything gets recycled at some point. Music, Movies, Fashion etc.. why not pedals too?

Lots of filters borrow from the design of the Mutron but none are really clones per se because elements of the Mutron III (such as the opto-isolators I believe) simply aren't available or source able.

 

[silky smoove]

For me a Proton (version 2) set to sweep the lower range is just about perfect.

IME, part of using a filter for a "classic" type sound, is the realization that a lot of what sounds great about it to you is going to get lost in the mix, regardless of which pedal you're using. If it's a dense/heavy mix, that just compounds things. I have two songs in my band's set that use the Proton, and while it's not the most noticeable effect, it does add a certain something that I wouldn't want to live without. Both of those songs have an overdrive (upstream in the chain from the filter) kick in during the choruses, which makes the filter effect more noticeable, but it's still not super noticeable.

 

[hennessybass]

Just a couple notes. I for one didn't see a huge difference in tone from most of the models of the DOD FX25. The old Kermit green ones were my favorite by a small margin but the difference wasn't night and day. I DID think the blend circuit on the later versions was terrible though. To me what the FX25 really needed was a GOOD clean blend to prevent it from thinning out too much and a limiter to handle the big volume spikes. One of my absolute favorite filter tones but it was a difficult little beast to tame. And yeah, great for that Bill Laswell closed filter dub tone.

I like the mini Q-Tron. Cool filter although it also gets volume spikes. Personally I thought the old big box ones sounded significantly better but were just too much of a PITA to put on a pedalboard.

I agree on the Proton being a great filter. But neither it or the Keeley are true MuTron III clones. Spencer has said that he DID tune his circuit by ear to get as close as he could to the sound of his original MuTron III. I dig the 3Leaf filters (Proton and the Groove Regulator/Wonderlove) but IMO it isn't a dead nuts ringer for an actual MuTron. I've never played the Keeley so I can't say how close it gets.

I want to pick up an Aguilar one of these days as I dig the dual filter setup. Cool for more vocal like tones. But you CAN dial it in so it's just up filter or just down filter if you want.

I think the Malekko is based on the old DOD 440 just like the Boomstick Bottom Feeder. To me more of a "spacey" filter than a "funky" filter.

The Bassballs really needs the trim pot mod and a clean blend to be really useful in my opinion. But the twin filter setup gives it a signature tone. Robot Factory at one point had a "Worm Hole" filter which seemed like a hot rodded and much improved Bassballs but I never got to try it. Since their Brain Freeze (and big brother Photron) and Meatwad (Meatball clone) were really solid I wish I'd have been able to check that one out too.

Lots of filters borrow from the design of the Mutron but none are really clones per se because elements of the Mutron III (such as the opto-isolators I believe) simply aren't available or source able.

Nice additional notes.

My experience with the DOD is pretty limited, and most of that -old is better than new- is from stuff I've read. I do know that the old Kermit / avocado ones sell for a lot more than the newer ones. Agree with you on the need for a limiter on that one.

I've never played a MuTron III - and probably never will since they cost so much. Anyway, I love the Proton, and look forward to checking out the Keeley filter.

 

[silky smoove]

This video of Spence, the builder of the 3Leaf pedals, is what sold me on the Proton, and I've been very happy with it ever since (random GAS outbursts not withstanding).

 

[Mosfed]

Because you've never tried a Mutron...

 

[Jared Lash]

I've never played a MuTron III - and probably never will since they cost so much.

My first experience with an actual MuTron was pretty disappointing but that's because I didn't realize that particular unit had fallen pretty far out of spec. Scratchy pots, rusted jacks and just not sounding great.

My second experience was with my old guitar player from our college band who is now a studio player and a gear hound. He has a pair of MuTron III's, as well as a Musictronics Octave Divider, BiPhase and Flanger which is as rare as hen's teeth. He also now has my old Phasor II as I gave him first dibs when I sold it. All of them have been given a checkup and some TLC from Richard at LSounds.

The MuTron III really is a special bit of gear. And it sounds fantastic with guitar, bass, keys etc. The flanger was a bit of a disappointment on bass but it sounds pretty amazing on guitar. You can do a "frozen" flange sound, get super swirling tones with a low LFO rate or use the foot sweep to get real interactivity. Very cool.

Back to filters, my current favorite is still the IE Xerograph. I really want a second filter so I can just use the Xero for synthy expression pedal sweeps, but it does the standard envelope filter stuff really well too.

 

[HolmeBass]

I use a Proton, MXR BEF, and Manta right now for EF duties. I also have a QTron+ that I save for special duties, it does one sound I love that I can't get on any other filters.

I also have the HAZ MuTron III+, an original MuTron III, and a DOD FX-25, none of which I use as EFs (I use the DOD as a LPF with the sensitivity turned all the way down). The original MuTron sounds good, but is too expensive and fragile to take out of the house. To use it live it would absolutely need an EQ and a dedicated volume pedal post filter, in my opinion.

What I find is very useful is having some way to boost the volume going into the filter a bit, I use both a clean boost or a mild OD. The OD especially works well because it adds extra high and upper mid freq content for the filter to work on. I will also sometimes cut the volume going into the EF using my bass's volume knob. These controls let me dial in the filter's response real-time when playing. Then I find I need a clean boost (a volume pedal would work too) after the filter to make up volume in some cases.

Things being variable, you never know exactly what the band will be doing when you get to the part you where want to use the EF, so I give myself ways to adjust on the fly to get the EF to sound right.

 

[JimmyM]

I've played Mutrons before. Sorry...not all that impressed with them.

 

[jwr]

I have tried and gotten rid of

BEF Pro (twice) (only dug 1 setting)
Manta (best of the bunch but could not achieve a normal sound envelope sound, probably my fault)
Groove Regulator (could not find a good setting on the this)
Xerograph Deluxe (4 time) (loved it but too finicky)
DOD FX 25 (worst filter EVER)
MXR Bass Filter (second worst, thin and cheap sounding)
WMD Fatman (overwhelming and hard as hell to dial in)
Chunk Systems Agent 00 Funk II (impossible to dial in!!!)
Subdecay Prometheus DLX (just...too much)


Probably a ton of others I can't think of. All of them were ok in there own ways, except the FX 25. Seriously, sucks.

I have yet to find one I get along with. I keep thinking of trying a Proton because of Spencer's face in the video. Hahaha. Makes it seem so funky. But at this point, I've kind of given up.

 

[FretNoMore]

I have this problem with both the Proton and the Wonderlove, I find the threshold setting for when the filter opens up to be too sensitive. Minute changes to your playing or the volume differences between strings can mean the filter is not opening or it's opening too much. It's hard to control the start of the filter sweep, is what I think I'm trying to say.

Maybe it's just down to my ham-handed playing, practice makes perfect etc, but it became a bit obvious now that I have the Funkzilla filter which does not have the same adjustment range but on the other hand is not nearly as finicky in terms of the signal level you send to the pedal. The filter feels more controllable because it's less sensitive, I guess. The Wonderlove sounds better but I don't think I will have the patience to learn how to use it.