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Why did prog rock never have mass popularity?

#241
bassGtar said:
It depends on what you mean by "thinks". Math equations or political speeches, yea no. But if you are conscientiously deciphering which instruments are doing what, paying attention to tonal movements, identifying rhythm changes, reflecting on how the music makes you feel, etc, then you are thinking. Similar to when you are eating something and deciding which ingredients it contains and whether you like it or not. If you aren't thinking, well I think even Jeff Berlin would approve of just turning the music off and listening to a metronome. :)
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And I am saying 99.5% of the people do not do that. Identifying rythm changes? Do you really think the masses does that?
 
#242
LBS-bass said:
Oh, my gosh.

You can't dance to it? I can. Women don't like it? I do. You can't hum the melodies? Sure you can; it's a lot more melodic than much of today's music. You have to think about it? No you don't. Nobody "thinks" about music. You feel it or you don't. You hear it and it moves you, or it doesn't. You might have to think it through a little to play it, but if you can count to ten you can find just about any odd measure and count it as a player. It's not hard.
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You can't make a rule out of an exception. I can dance to it just as well as any other music, just think Elaine on Seinfeld. I can hum the music because I'm a musician, but it's often not easy, which line to choose. In my mind when you think or focus or concentrate on the music you get absorbed into the music and each listen brings out different things, you hear other instruments, tempos, sounds, harmonies, etc even decades later. I literally get lost in the music. It's not so much a mathematical type of focus or listening. But that does not fit the majority either.

And if you want me to play 2112 I'm going to need more than 50 bucks and a beer. Let's face it most of us can show up at a gig and "pull it off" but not if your playing Rush, especially old school Rush. So yeah it is hard to play, because you also have to find 3 or 4 people interested and able to put the time in. You are a highly skilled musician who wants to put the time in. And I think (no proof) that musicians (skilled and wanna be's) make up a huge part of the audience for Prog and other similar genre like fusion.

It seems some think it's all or nothing, but there is still a bunch out there keeping it popular enough, it doesn't have to be the very top. But each generation does take something different to the very top for some period of time, and 30 or 50 years later will have the same conversation we are having today.

And it's a great conversation.
 
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#244
Bass4Gsus said:
You can't make a rule out of an exception. I can dance to it just as well as any other music, just think Elaine on Seinfeld. I can hum the music because I'm a musician, but it's often not easy, which line to choose. In my mind when you think or focus or concentrate on the music you get absorbed into the music and each listen brings out different things, you hear other instruments, tempos, sounds, harmonies, etc even decades later. I literally get lost in the music. It's not such much mathematical type of focus or listening. But that does not fit the majority either.

And if you want me to play 2112 I'm going to need more than 50 bucks and a beer. Let's face it most of us can show up at a gig and "pull it off" but not if your playing Rush, especially old school Rush. So yeah it is hard to play, because you also have to find 3 or 4 people interested and able to put the time in. You are a highly skilled musician who wants to put the time in. And I think (no proof) that musicians (skilled and wanna be's) make up a huge part of the audience for Prog and other similar genre like fusion.

It seems some think it's all or nothing, but there is still a bunch out there keeping it popular enough, it doesn't have to be the very top. But each generation does take something different to the very top for some period of time, and 30 or 50 years later will have the same conversation we are having today.

And it's a great conversation.
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Well I agree with much of this, but would point out that I never said anything about rules. Stereotypes are what they are. Today's prog does have a pretty strong male-nerd appeal and I'm on record in other threads here with my views on that. Hint - it's not the music that drives women away; it's the culture. But we can quibble points. The main thing is that a lot of what's been said about how it was in the 70's just wasn't the way it was in the 70's.
 
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#245
As others have mentioned, the critics always hated prog while obliviously loving and adoring simplistic bands like The Ramones and The Clash. They now continue to trot out these venerable scarecrows even though they currently have even less of an audience than prog music does. Nonetheless, the damage was done and prog fans became more and more closeted over time. It didn't help that the male prog fans' wives and girlfriends also loathed the music and would only go along to King Crimson concerts if they were bribed with expensive dinners beforehand.

So thank you, all of you nitwit journalists that mercilessly bashed an imperfect yet striving art form, and remember what Frank Zappa said about you:

"Rock journalism is people who can’t write interviewing people who can’t talk for people who can’t read."
 
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#246
MidnightRunner said:
Moving Pictures was a quite accessible material to a wider audience. But Hemispheres on the other hand...
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The first time I heard Rush was walking into the Senior Lounge in High School and hearing 2112 on All The World's a Stage on our much hated by the faculty stereo system turntable. I was hooked. I bought it on the way home at Sam Goody on 8 track. Then on cassette, then on CD, and now it's on flac.

I felt the same way the first time I heard Liquid Tension Experiment Live in NYC doing Acid Rain on you tube. Instant fan. Searched out the albums.

This kind of surprise has probably happened the most within Prog Rock and even Jazz.
 
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#247
LBS-bass said:
it's the culture. ...... The main thing is that a lot of what's been said about how it was in the 70's just wasn't the way it was in the 70's.
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The culture is a whole different problem and can of worms. I agree, the culture can damage lots of stuff.

I keep telling my son, no that's not how it was, I was there! Just because someone said it on the internet doesn't make it true. But people do have different experiences, perceptions, memories, and geography. I for one only remember the good music and forget how much awful stuff there was back then too. The good stuff survives.
 
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#248
Hounddog409 said:
And I am saying 99.5% of the people do not do that. Identifying rythm changes? Do you really think the masses does that?
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I dig it, I’m a one-percenter!

I misinterpreted your comment to mean that nobody thinks about music while listening to it. Period. It seemed even more strange on a bass forum where people frequently talk about music and bass players and tone to the nth degree. I can’t speak for the other 99%, but if they are shaking their booty then their probably thinking about the music.
 
#249
bassGtar said:
I dig it, I’m a one-percenter!

I misinterpreted your comment to mean that nobody thinks about music while listening to it. Period. It seemed even more strange on a bass forum where people frequently talk about music and bass players and tone to the nth degree. I can’t speak for the other 99%, but if they are shaking their booty then their probably thinking about the music.
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I generally don't do a lot of thinking about music when I am listening to it. I might think about some aspects of it because they interest me, but I don't think there's a requirement of thinking about music while listening to it in order to enjoy it. Music is an immersive experience for a deep listener. I don't think it involves much conscious level cognition to enjoy it, but maybe that's just the way I hear/listen, and others are different.

The point I would make in all this is that for me the idea that complex music requires a deeper cognitive effort doesn't really make sense. If I want to play it, it probably does. But as a listener, I will let it wash over me and be an experience just like any other music I might hear. I hope that makes sense.
 
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#250
Jeff Scott said:
WMMS was hardly an underground radio station....
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Well, I'm sorry, wasn't there, didn't listen to them. Was thinking more along the lines of KQRS in Minneapolis/St. Paul in about 1972, but I checked their website and there was nothing on their history. Though I know, I was there in their studio, passing the time of day with their on-air jock, while he played a full album, so when you mentioned that, that's what came to mind.
 
#251
Jeff Scott said:
I saw Frampton, but he wasn't as well known at the time. When I saw him in 1971 he was playing with some band called Humble Pie :woot:. Glass Harp opened the show (first time I saw, or even, heard of them).
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I saw Humble Pie in the early '70s at a concert where the headliner was Mountain. The opening act was Yes. All three bands were great.
 
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#256
bmusic said:
Prog is like disco. It had a moment—and its influence lives on—but then more immediate and (dare I say) authentic genres like punk and grunge came down the pipe and smashed all the glitter and artifice and pretense. (Hey, that "Stonehenge " bit in Spinal Tap—that's for you, proggies.) Most people want music to relate to, to connect us all, not to educate us about 7/8 time and wizards telling riddles on a dusty British moor.

Talking out of my butt here, but hey, it's the internet, so when in Rome...
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Well, I don't know about disco, but there are still a ton of prog bands, and bands with prog influences around today...and they don't write lyrics about wizards, either. Like Tool and Porcupine Tree and Black Midi and so many more. Also, bands like Rush, for example, were very good at making 'odd' time signatures sound natural. And it's amazing how many people don't know, or have even argued against, that Pink Floyd's Money is in 7, lol.
 
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#257
In the 70s prog was, for my friends and I, an escape from disco and the like on the radio. I wore my Genesis t-shirt every Friday in high-school until it fell apart. Jethro Tull, Yes, Floyd, ELP, Spirit, King Crimson, etc. etc. I still love it. Later came Radiohead, Dukes of Stratosphear (XTC), and on and on. My GF and recently saw one of our favorite bands, Porcupine Tree in Toronto on their first show in over 10 years. Not only were they amazing but the audience consisted of all ages and both sexes equally. I'd say that there is still a huge audience for Prog. I'm fortunate although that she has very similar taste in music as I do!
 
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