Why did prog rock never have mass popularity?

[Lance Bunyon]

Then they released The Wall and suddenly the joke was on him.

Him who? Roger? Syd? David?

 

[Tom Bomb]

Pink​

 

[DrThumpenstein]

That was more psychedelic than prog.

But they were a progression of the art form and fit what most people think of as prog rock. And so were other bands that a lot of people label prog (Tull, King Crimson, even Genesis showed psychedelic influences back then). Creative, non-formulaic, more musically challenging to the listener than mainstream 3-min, 3-chord rock. Which, to me, is a big part of progressive rock.

Like @Michedelic alludes, none of those bands went, "Oh, let's make a prog record." We put the label on. But I think most people consider Floyd an important progressive rock band.

 

[ElectroVibe]

Him who? Roger? Syd? David?

Johnny Rotten

 

[LBS-bass]

But they were a progression of the art form and fit what most people think of as prog rock. And so were other bands that a lot of people label prog (Tull, King Crimson, even Genesis showed psychedelic influences back then). Creative, non-formulaic, more musically challenging to the listener than mainstream 3-min, 3-chord rock. Which, to me, is a big part of progressive rock.

Like @Michedelic alludes, none of those bands went, "Oh, let's make a prog record." We put the label on. But I think most people consider Floyd an important progressive rock band.

It’s arguable. Since I was around and listening back then, what I saw was a psychedelic band that decided to skew hard toward leaning into the progressive sounds (which was all called alternative back then) once some of the better known progressive bands came on the scene. You’re right that the labels are retrofitted but they still mean what they’re fitted to.

A lot of music back then experimented with fusing different styles to one another. In retrospect we can look at the roots of each group and call it what we will but I’d argue there’s no such thing as “pure” progressive music, anyway.

 

[Michedelic]

Then they released The Wall and suddenly the joke was on him.

Johnny Rotten

What exactly was the joke?

 

[58kites]

Disagree with that on the Floyd side. Early Porcupine Tree, Riverside, RPWL, Eloy, to name a few, are all heavily in that Floydian vein.

I just put all those on my Amazon Music list. Thanks.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Prog would have died instantly without AOR...Album Oriented Radio. Scotso in NY. Jim Ladd in L.A.
Laquadera in Boston. And many more whom insisted on creating their own playlist, "screw Billboard".

 

[58kites]

I’m surprised that Radiohead hadn’t been mentioned.

I can definitely tell that Radiohead were heavily influenced by Pink Floyd and they are a fantastic band....I still have never heard a band that I might confuse with Pink Floyd if I heard them on the radio.

 

[58kites]

Johnny Rotten

Johnny (Lydon) Rotten was good at saying provocative things, and was never shy about slagging everybody...the perfect mouthpiece character to draw attention and promote punk, but punk didn't need him really, it was there long before him and long after him.
The fact that he got caught up in the Sex Pistols thing is kind of funny based on all the crap he has said about so many musicians/performers/artists.
I was impressed with some of Public Image Limited's music and I think he got together with the right guys and they made three good records.
He seems to be massively confused about his importance in the world of music though.

 

[HHudson]

If anything, the ‘Punk’ uprising, with the attendant New Wave umbrella, was a reaction to the blandness of mainstream rock of the mid-70’s, the sorry state of things on FM rock radio at that point, after all that incredible exploration and experimentation of ‘66 to about ‘72. Granted, not all of that had been sucessful, and then right at that point was the flowering of what was regarded specifically as “prog”, but the status quo radio only recognized a certain small number of bands that fell in that catagory, ones that had a pleasant, more accessible sound in spite of having multi-section suites and flashy instrumental play, let alone catchy short songs that would work as chart hits, which meant that they were back playing the game that the era they came from was supposedly in opposition to. Sure, many of the underground bands of ‘67/‘68 had Top 40 hits, but that fell by the wayside quickly as the freeform era of FM rose to prominence.

John Lydon later admitted that his “(I Hate)Pink Floyd” DIY Tshirt was more for agitating people, getting a rise out of them, and that he didn’t specifically have a problem with the band; after all, he followed Hawkwind around as a teenager, for what that’s worth. He also cited Van Der Graaf Generator’s Peter Hammill as vocal influence, and there was, by all report, an admiration for at least Syd Barrett and German band Can among the London punk scene, plus there was Eno, who had a foot in both camps, as well as bands like BeBop Deluxe. Even before that crew, and setting the stage for them, was Pub Rock, a back to basics movement that rejected the pomposity of ELP, Yes, and the like.

True enough, but I wasn't talking about the musical politics involved, just the antithetical music style. KIS and back to the raw basics.... 50's R'n'R & early 60's Rock [e.g. Kinks/Sonics/Troggs..] urgent, raw & in your face often with "I don't like/want/need/have to..." in the message directly as opposed to the more musing navel searching introspective artsy hippy messages (often "why?" songs e.g. Dylan "How Many Roads...") against the establishment, which actually was not all that different at the end of the day, just the delivery (and a bit less nihilism perhaps). There are enough counter examples with punk as well though (innovative Dury, introspective Childish or Joey Ramone..etc etc etc ..). The Two Tone Ska was similar, but with the pre rocksteady/reggae Jamacian ska infused with punk as the basis and often political/social in the message.

 

[Pluckoff]

New prog band from Norway

 

[Jeff Scott]

Prog would have died instantly without AOR...Album Oriented Radio. Scotso in NY. Jim Ladd in L.A.
Laquadera in Boston. And many more whom insisted on creating their own playlist, "screw Billboard".

WMMS, back in the '70s.

 

[amper]

Disagree with the highlighted section. Some people are just wired to compose music that way. Even at my level, I come up with a fair amount of odd-metered riffs just because they naturally sound good to me; not because I'm trying to write in non-standard Western pop music time signatures, for the sake of it.

Yes, but you must admit, as musicians (presumably, here we are on TalkBass), we aren't the average consumers of music. We are relative sophisticates, having been trained in musical performance, theory, and composition. Many of my favorite songs are in non-standard time signatures, notably Brubeck's "Take Five" (5/4) and "Blue Rondo a la Turk" (9/8), as well as Pale Saints' "Hunted" (10/8), just off the top of my head.

 

[amper]

Prog would have died instantly without AOR...Album Oriented Radio. Scotso in NY. Jim Ladd in L.A.
Laquadera in Boston. And many more whom insisted on creating their own playlist, "screw Billboard".

WLIR was really more my thing.

‘New Wave: Dare To Be Different’ Shines a Light on Influential Long Island Radio Station During the ’80s | Billboard – Billboard

 

[HHudson]

WLIR was really more my thing.

‘New Wave: Dare To Be Different’ Shines a Light on Influential Long Island Radio Station During the ’80s | Billboard – Billboard

... And the 70's college FM radio stations, which had longer programs dedicated to everything imaginable except the top 40 fare. Was my main staple back in the day in NY, VT & OH. (Goddard(?) was especially unique with their "Glass Bead Game" show.... drove most people nuts who came over when I had it on, there was no genre they stuck to... Beethoven, the Standels, Joan Baez, Ellington, the Clash, Credence, Sly... all one after the other...you had to figure out why, or if there even was a why... lol)

 

[Jeff Scott]

Yes, but you must admit, as musicians (presumably, here we are on TalkBass), we aren't the average consumers of music. We are relative sophisticates, having been trained in musical performance, theory, and composition. Many of my favorite songs are in non-standard time signatures, notably Brubeck's "Take Five" (5/4) and "Blue Rondo a la Turk" (9/8), as well as Pale Saints' "Hunted" (10/8), just off the top of my head.

Exhibit A of our superior musical astuteness.

 

[ElectroVibe]

What exactly was the joke?

It's funny that they got even more popular.

 

[Neil Folkard]

Yes, but you must admit, as musicians (presumably, here we are on TalkBass), we aren't the average consumers of music. We are relative sophisticates, having been trained in musical performance, theory, and composition. Many of my favorite songs are in non-standard time signatures, notably Brubeck's "Take Five" (5/4) and "Blue Rondo a la Turk" (9/8), as well as Pale Saints' "Hunted" (10/8), just off the top of my head.

Well yes, but a ton of people who are trained musicians still have no interest in, or affinity for, complex music. And I just will never agree that any music that is complex, is necessarily complex for it's own sake. In fact, I think that is just a false statement, right out of the gate. Just as simple music isn't necessarily dumbed down, for the sake of it.

Whatever moves you, moves you.

 

[Bob_Ross]

Makes me wonder how many dudes took up flute hoping to be the next Ian Anderson.

I misread ^^^that and thought you wrote "Makes me wonder how many dudes took up flute hopping to be the next Ian Anderson"
...which would also make sense.