Why did prog rock never have mass popularity?

[Neil Folkard]

The prog genre had its musical and commercial peak in the 70s. It had mass appeal back then. After that it got wiped over by punk and new wave.

Prog kept on going but it kept repeating itself and lost the experimental progressive nature for a very long time after that. Most of the bands were lesser copies or heavily influenced by the big six: King Crimson, Yes, ELP, old Genesis Gentle Giant and Rush. The genre, despite its name, was not progressing at all from the 80s till say the end of the 90s.

Until prog metal bands like Dream Theater came. But that made the genre more metal than prog and bands started to copy that too, again without any progression. Until the last decade or so with bands like Animals as leaders or Polyphia. That’s more math metal than prog metal though but it’s an evolution of the genre and musical progression while other bands kept repeating the big six.

I personally am not interested in copies of the big five but still listen a lot to the classic prog bands of the 70s.

Well, it's hard to keep inventing and redefining a genre. But one can easily argue that right here today, the amount of quality progressive music out there, that is blending and warping together all kinds of interesting genres (minimalist jazz, dark folk, pop, metal, etc.) and creating new musical landscapes, has never been greater.

Of course, in general, it's not going to have anywhere near the popularity of the 70s bands, but that is to be expected.

Black Midi certainly is an example of a young band, that has taken some older prog/jazz tropes (Mahavishnu Orchestra, VDGG and more) as a starting point and completely mashed it together with a bunch of modern elements into something fresh. IMO.

 

[Marko 1]

Gentle Giant, Camel and Van Der Graaf Generator are great prog bands

Who?

but only prog fans recognize those band names.

Oh... okay then.

 

[Les Fret]

Well, it's hard to keep inventing and redefining a genre. But one can easily argue that right here today, the amount of quality progressive music out there, that is blending and warping together all kinds of interesting genres (minimalist jazz, dark folk, pop, metal, etc.) and creating new musical landscapes, has never been greater.

Of course, in general, it's not going to have anywhere near the popularity of the 70s bands, but that is to be expected.

Black Midi certainly is an example of a young band, that has taken some older prog/jazz tropes (Mahavishnu Orchestra, VDGG and more) as a starting point and completely mashed it together with a bunch of modern elements into something fresh. IMO.

I totally agree. I like black midi too. Same goes for Polyphia and such. But I don't think prog fans consider that as prog. Although they are much more progressive and experimental than what most prog rock fans call prog, bands like Porcupine Tree or Dream Theater or others.

 

[Neil Folkard]

I totally agree. I like black midi too. Same goes for Polyphia and such. But I don't think prog fans consider that as prog. Although they are much more progressive and experimental than what most prog rock fans call prog, bands like Porcupine Tree or Dream Theater or others.

Absolutely. Ironically, many people have a very narrow window of what they would call prog. That is what they feel comfortable with, and that's fine. I tend to just call it progressive music now; with a multitude genres in play. I think of the term progressive rock, per se, as what happened in the 70s with all the classic bands and to some extent the neo-prog acts of the 80s.

 

[Les Fret]

Absolutely. Ironically, many people have a very narrow window of what they would call prog. That is what they feel comfortable with, and that's fine. I tend to just call it progressive music now; with a multitude genres in play. I think of the term progressive rock, per se, as what happened in the 70s with all the classic bands and to some extent the neo-prog acts of the 80s.

Yes I agree again. I call the solo albums that I make also prog, but in the broadest sense. Influenced by classic 70's prog and jazzrock but also modern dance, classical and electronical, minimal music, world music and more. I don't like bands that keep repeating themselves or copy other classic prog bands like so many prog rock bands of today do, but it's ok of course to be influenced by them

 

[Neil Folkard]

Yes I agree again. I call the solo albums that I make also prog, but in the broadest sense. Influenced by classic 70's prog and jazzrock but also modern dance, classical and electronical, minimal music, world music and more. I don't like bands that keep repeating themselves or copy other classic prog bands like so many prog rock bands of today do, but it's ok of course to be influenced by them

I'd be interested in hearing some of your music, if you have any links that you'd like to share.

 

[WG Plum]

Black Midi certainly is an example of a young band, that has taken some older prog/jazz tropes (Mahavishnu Orchestra, VDGG and more) as a starting point and completely mashed it together with a bunch of modern elements into something fresh. IMO.

Black Midi rules, but I'd call them punk jazz, not prog. Same for Horse Lords, who also rule.

 

[WG Plum]

Yes I agree again. I call the solo albums that I make also prog, but in the broadest sense. Influenced by classic 70's prog and jazzrock but also modern dance, classical and electronical, minimal music, world music and more. I don't like bands that keep repeating themselves or copy other classic prog bands like so many prog rock bands of today do, but it's ok of course to be influenced by them

It's funny, I wouldn't have considered what you do prog, but I guess I can hear it. I guess I would call it art music, it's outside standard popular forms, but I would never put it in the same category as Yes, KC, Marillion, etc.

 

[Neil Folkard]

Black Midi rules, but I'd call them punk jazz, not prog. Same for Horse Lords, who also rule.

Well, there's the old label thing again. And that is the beauty of a lot of modern, challenging music. It is throwing different stuff in the blender and trying to have it come out as something different and interesting.

Again, I just call everything in that area progressive music, not prog rock. It's taking elements of conventional punk, jazz, prog and standing them on their head.

Horse Lords are very cool, and it's not every day that I encounter anyone who has heard of them, haha. And if you like them and some of their aspects of microtonal exploration, you should definitely check out The Mercury Tree.

 

[WG Plum]

Well, there's the old label thing again. And that is the beauty of a lot of modern, challenging music. It is throwing different stuff in the blender and trying to have it come out as something different and interesting.

Again, I just call everything in that area progressive music, not prog rock. It's taking elements of conventional punk, jazz, prog and standing them on their head.

Horse Lords are very cool, and it's not every day that I encounter anyone who has heard of them, haha. And if you like them and some of their aspects of microtonal exploration, you should definitely check out The Mercury Tree.

Right on. I guess it's a terminology personal preference thing. I tend not to use prog-anything to describe music unless it's related to the standard prog bands to my ears. I don't hear that with BM or HL, but I sure hear jazz and punk influences. I call it art music, for better or worse. Being a No Wave and 80s-90s Knitting Factory/downtown NY fan, I'll admit to bristling at the prog label (despite being a massive KC fan).

Definitely checking out The Mercury Tree, thanks for the recommendation!

Edited to add: dig the music, could do without the vocals.... definitely more of a prog vibe than BM or HL.

 

[Les Fret]

It's funny, I wouldn't have considered what you do prog, but I guess I can hear it. I guess I would call it art music, it's outside standard popular forms, but I would never put it in the same category as Yes, KC, Marillion, etc.

haha...I consider it prog in the broadest sense, but not Yes, Genesis like prog indeed. But sure some influences from King Crimson, old jazzrock, Mahavishnu, Brand X and such. The more experimental prog/fusion. But also lots of other styles.

 

[Les Fret]

I'd be interested in hearing some of your music, if you have any links that you'd like to share.

ok here is my second solo album on Bandcamp. Michael Manring also plays on one track.
Each track is different so you 'have to' check them all!
You can also find the first album there. Let me know what you think!

 

[Neil Folkard]

ok here is my second solo album. Michael Manring also plays on one track.

You can also find the first album there. Let me know what you think!

I will. Thanks.

 

[WG Plum]

ok here is my second solo album on Bandcamp. Michael Manring also plays on one track.
Each track is different so you 'have to' check them all!
You can also find the first album there. Let me know what you think!

It's good stuff, I've enjoyed it and your youtube vids.

 

[Les Fret]

It's good stuff, I've enjoyed it and your youtube vids.

Thanks a lot! appreciate it

 

[58kites]

Prog was never intended to have mass popularity. Pick any decade, most big hits were shorter songs, strong catchy vocals, light subject matter, easy on complex musicianship.

The exact mirror image of most prog.

I'm pretty sure most prog bands would have liked to be massively popular.
Keeps them from having to get day jobs and gets them nice cars, nice gear, big houses and so on.

 

[Jeff Scott]

A very good band, I agree. When they started however, they had a huge Floyd influence. I would say that the first album, Out of Myself, was very much in that vein and then the second album, Second Life Syndrome was very proggy. It was after that that the started focusing more on the heavier aspects and distanced themselves to an extent from prog.

I'm happy to have seen them live a number of times. They always put on a good show.

I am glad to know you seen Riverside a few times. I first learned of them around '11 when I stumbled on "Living in the Past" on youtube. I've never had the opportunity to see them.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I'm pretty sure most prog bands would have liked to be massively popular.
Keeps them from having to get day jobs and gets them nice cars, nice gear, big houses and so on.

Who wouldn't? Bit it's hardly the formula for mass success. Some rock bands realized this (Rush with Moving Pictures, Yes with 90125) and changed their formula, and became more successful.

 

[micguy]

And if you like them and some of their aspects of microtonal exploration, you should definitely check out The Mercury Tree.

Someone has listened to an awful lot of King Crimson. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.....

The addition of microtuning moves it a step further into the "hard listening" category. The one thing I like about microtuning is I'm pretty sure you can set your bridge saddles anywhere, and.....you won't notice.

I have to assume that, with 17 steps to an octave, that the keys of H, I, and J open up as possibilities.

 

[Jeff Scott]

haha...I consider it prog in the broadest sense, but not Yes, Genesis like prog indeed. But sure some influences from King Crimson, old jazzrock, Mahavishnu, Brand X and such. The more experimental prog/fusion. But also lots of other styles.

Rare Blend's music was kinda like that, an, uh, blending of musical genres.