Why did the J never dethrone the P?

[JazzyJacuzzi]

On paper, the Jazz has everything to dethrone the Precision as the most widely used type of bass, such as:

• A faster, smaller and thinner neck that is most likely more comfortable for more people;
• Two pickups for a wider range of tones, including a neck pickup that most of us couldn’t distinguish from a P’s when soloed in a blind test; and
• Offset body that is more comfortable to play while sitting down.

So, why did the J never manage to dethrone the P in your opinion?

 

[AGCurry]

Why did the Stratocaster never dethrone the Telecaster?
Why did Chevrolet never dethrone Ford?
Why did Pepsi-Cola never dethrone Coca-Cola?

As the French say, chacon a sons gou. To each his own.

Just for the record, I find the Precision more comfortable to play sitting down. So there you are...

 

[bholder]

It wasn't meant to. "Dethrone the P" implies a fixed market. The whole point of the J was to grow the market, not cannibalize P sales.

 

[wvbass]

Umm...why did Boba Fett never dethrone Captain America?

 

[Picton]

Why would anyone think FMIC would have wanted to "dethrone" another FMIC product?

Some kooky thinking going on in some of these threads...

 

[thewildest]

If you consider that common sense is just an illusion, everything is possible.

 

[micguy]

I'm not sure it didn't. Does anyone here have the data to show definitively what the situation is? If not, this is another trolling question.

I worked for a company that made the 2 most popular devices in the category. If you asked customers, most would say "B" sold more. But...."A" was definitely the case - the market's perception of such things is very often warped.

 

[PJ Muzikmansky]

I currently own / play a CS '59 precision bass, and have owned a '62 RI Precision in the past. I've also owned/played several 60's and 70's jazz basses and I think it boils down to this:

The majority of players seem to prefer the sound of a precision bass for the styles of music most popular with the 'average' utilitarian bass player.

1) The faster, smaller, thinner neck on a jazz bass doesn't necessarily translate to player comfort. A lot of players have larger hands and prefer the wider neck normally found on a precision. I know I do.

2) Two pickups on a jazz bass for a wider array of tones, none of which IMO are quite as good as the singular tone of a good precision for the kinds of music the majority of people like to play. Also the VVT on a jazz can be a bit of a pain IMO, while the VT on a precision is as simple as it gets. Re the 'blind test' hypothesis. In my experience the neck pickup on a jazz bass is quite easy to tell apart from an older split coil precision, and vice versa. The precision sounds thicker with more pronounced midrange. The notes have more girth. Some of the more modern P iterations sound closer to the neck pickup on a jazz, but old P basses? They sound quite different.

3) The notion that an offset body on a jazz bass automatically means greater player comfort is pretty subjective.

 

[jd56hawk]

I'm more interested in knowing why anyone would wonder why it should.

 

[JW56789]

'Why did the Jazz Bass never de-throne the Precision Bass ?'

• 
  
  
  • A faster, smaller and thinner neck that is most likely more comfortable for more people;
  • Two pickups for a wider range of tones, including a neck pickup that most of us couldn’t distinguish from a P’s when soloed in a blind test; and
  • Offset body that is more comfortable to play while sitting down.

That's why.

For a lot of guys, one pickup, two knobs, a beefier feeling axe and neck, and a useable tone that was almost impossible to screw up fit the bill, in spades.

Change that up with a broomstick neck and two pickups and constantly fiddling with two volumes to get 'that tone' . . . is just bothersome. See above. And yet for other guys, that variation IS the key to more useful tones than a Precision.

It's why they make both.

 

[GreyBeard]

I like the simplicity of my p but, I really like both for different reasons.

 

[James Collins]

I'm not sure it didn't. Does anyone here have the data to show definitively what the situation is? If not, this is another trolling question.

I worked for a company that made the 2 most popular devices in the category. If you asked customers, most would say "B" sold more. But...."A" was definitely the case - the market's perception of such things is very often warped.

I was thinking just this. Without numbers this is a pretty worthless question. I googled and came up empty.

 

[musicman556]

I really would like to see the sales figures over a few years before buying into the OP's premise.

I feel like I see many more Js being bought and played than Ps. Of course, that is just my perception and in no way does that carry any value.

Personally, I like the body shape of a J and the neck of a P. It's a toss-up on the pickups. I use each for different things.

My next custom bass is going to be a J body with a P neck and P pickup.

 

[micguy]

I was thinking just this. Without numbers this is a pretty worthless question. I googled and came up empty.

If you poll Talkbass users, you'll get a very vocal "P is the king" group. But there is also a very vocal "Flats" group, and we know (one of the string makers on here has confirmed this) that flats sales are a small percentage of the market. Any hints you get from here about P vs J sales are probably also biased by the fact that we're not a representative slice of the market.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Too many knobs.

 

[luciens]

Agree that the JB was more of a supplemental model to the PB, not meant as a total replacement for it. But I also agree that we may not actually know that it truly isn't as popular if not more. Probably only Fender knows how many JB's vs. PB's they've actually sold, and who knows how many of each are actually played around the world, etc.

Quite possible that the Jazz bass has eclipsed the P bass in some way, but both are so ubiquitous that nobody has actually taken notice. Or like I said we can't really tell.

Hell I have equal numbers of each: 2 Tony Franklins and 2 Jacos. And I'm about equally likely to play one or the other these days. I go through phases where I mildly prefer one of them, then later I prefer the other. And it goes back and forth like that.

I also can't quite think of a situation where one can do something the other can't. It's a tough call.

So I'm not sure if the JB didn't quietly pull ahead of the P bass in one way or other at some point in time or not...

L

 

[micguy]

Why would anyone think FMIC would have wanted to "dethrone" another FMIC product?

Actually, that is a very good question - my company had (still does) the king product in our category, and we absolutely tried to de-throne it. Any company with common sense does that.

The logic is simple - if it's possible for someone to de-throne your product, you want it to be you, not your competitor. If you succeed at de-throning your own product, you still have the king, albeit a second king. If you fail, you still have the original king. It's always good to be/have the king.

For what it's worth, Sweetwater has 65 J models listed, and 58 P's (4 string Fender models). 5'er Fenders are 14 J's and 4 P's. Squier is 18 to 14 in favor of J's in 4 stringers, for 5'ers, ALL the 7 Squier models are J's. Not sure if that means anything definitive, but it does mean that they sell enough J's to justify the expenses of creating and marketing that many J sub-models. And apparently the market for budget 5 string P's is not worth bothering with.

 

[chadds]

Why did Bailey Quarters never dethrone Mary Anne?

Seriously? They are so different that when you played them you’d decide how to own both or that you needed just one. Don’t miss what music was prominent when they came out. Then what fit the work you’d be called to play.

 

[Stewie]

I’d say that about 70% of the bassists I know usually play a Jazz Bass, but have at least one P Bass at home. I have 2 Precisions. This is exactly why they make vanilla AND chocolate ice cream, I don’t believe that either surpasses the upright, except for the ease of playing faster and fitting in the car better

 

[BarfanyShart]

As bassists, ours is a simple God, and he does not favor Schism.