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Why did you stop compressing your live rig??
- Thread starter Mcrelly
- Start date
I use the exact same setup for playing live and recording, and it sounds great. I just use an old ADA MP-2 guitar preamp loaded with a pair of Telefunken ECC83s with a TC Electronics Triple-C multiband compressor, into a GK 1001RB. I use the recording outs on the ADA for my PA/recording signal. I run at 2:1, but with a fairly high threshold, so it only brings down the high stuff. I run the tube gain on my preamp at 100% for that nice tube sound. If I really start to dig in, the tubes add a little bit of grit for me.
In short, I always use compression. I just set it so that it's not always compressing. It's there when I want it.
In short, I always use compression. I just set it so that it's not always compressing. It's there when I want it.
I have one, but it's usually not doing anything. When I first added it into my rack, I found myself using lots of compression (the effect of getting a new toy, maybe?).
I do like it as an effect, that really squashed sound is fun sometimes, but in most cases I really can't tell that much differnce from my comp being in or out of my signal chain. I decided today that I'd like to play with using the side-chain to just limit a few frequencies my poor cabinet doesn't seem to like (but I did find another work around...turns out your ears are better at hearing than your eyes, who knew).
I do like it as an effect, that really squashed sound is fun sometimes, but in most cases I really can't tell that much differnce from my comp being in or out of my signal chain. I decided today that I'd like to play with using the side-chain to just limit a few frequencies my poor cabinet doesn't seem to like (but I did find another work around...turns out your ears are better at hearing than your eyes, who knew).
Hi there! I thought I'd just add my tuppence worth..
I got told about a microphone technique used for recording that I have used now for ages on my bass gear...
I play a lot of 'widdley' stuff, chords etc that can get hard to control levels over, but I don't want to compress all my lovely attack and punch..
Easy! I run 2 compressors in PARALLEL to each other.. one compresses the pants out of the signal with a long attack, which is great for chords, tapping, Chapman Stick style, pinch harmonics etc, whereas the other channel is only an 'absolute' peak limiter. I mix the 2 levels for taste and run them into the rest of the gear. These go first in the chain and both have noisegates if need be, but, rarely required.
Try it.. it is cheating a little, but if you get the levels right, you can barely hear the compressor, but every note sings out!
I got told about a microphone technique used for recording that I have used now for ages on my bass gear...
I play a lot of 'widdley' stuff, chords etc that can get hard to control levels over, but I don't want to compress all my lovely attack and punch..
Easy! I run 2 compressors in PARALLEL to each other.. one compresses the pants out of the signal with a long attack, which is great for chords, tapping, Chapman Stick style, pinch harmonics etc, whereas the other channel is only an 'absolute' peak limiter. I mix the 2 levels for taste and run them into the rest of the gear. These go first in the chain and both have noisegates if need be, but, rarely required.
Try it.. it is cheating a little, but if you get the levels right, you can barely hear the compressor, but every note sings out!
dood said:Easy! I run 2 compressors in PARALLEL to each other.. one compresses the pants out of the signal with a long attack, which is great for chords, tapping, Chapman Stick style, pinch harmonics etc, whereas the other channel is only an 'absolute' peak limiter. I mix the 2 levels for taste and run them into the rest of the gear. These go first in the chain and both have noisegates if need be, but, rarely required.
Try it.. it is cheating a little, but if you get the levels right, you can barely hear the compressor, but every note sings out!
I've used that trick for recording, and not just on the bass tracks. I've heard it called an exciter/compressor technique. That would definately bring out the bass in a live mix.
Ok I just stopped compressing my live rig becasue i need the money. So someone buy my DBX 262 rackmount compressor already.
I'm ashamed to admit how many amp heads and stacks of speaker cabinets I went through trying to get rid of that fart sound at the beginning of a note. It used to drive me nuts. I finally cured it by adding lots of headroom, PLX2402 and two Mesa 4x10 cabs. One day a wise old bluesman told me it was my heavy right hand that was the problem and suggested that I do all my practicing with a little ten watt combo amp to develope a smoother, softer hand technique. Sure enough, a couple of months of that and I was cured. Now I only need half as many watts and no stinking compressor.
I'm sure Steve disagrees (as do I) that compression is *typically* used to cover bad technique. He simply omitted a word.Brad Johnson said:
I think most of us agree that a bassist's technical skill is more evident when a trebly roundwound sound is used: easier to hear evenness of attack, yadda yadda. It's unreasonable to assume that a bassist who uses flatwounds and/or rolls back his/her tone control is hiding bad technique. Likewise, it's unfair to infer anything negative from a bassist's use of compression.
Fuzzbass said:
I guess
. IME it's typically used for exactly that by people who use it for that purpose. OTOH are you sure he didn't say exactly what he meant?Maybe... I've heard uneven technique on all types of strings.
I guess I'm missing something here as usual. Who is saying that flatwound users are hiding bad technique? Who is saying that someone who rolls their tone back is hiding bad technique? Who says that compression users are hiding bad technique?
As far as The Inference...why is it unfair to say (not infer) that a player who tells you that it is not possible to utuilize techniques, say slapping and fingerstyle, WITHOUT a compressor, probably hasn't refined their technique and doesn't know that technique can do what they think is otherwise impossible?
What I really don't get is why this topic always turns into a catch-all. This is not about compressors ONLY being used as a crutch... it's about the times when it is. That's all. Why do people get so defensive about their compressor use? THEY should know whether they're using it as a crutch or not. If they aren't it shouldn't be a big deal. If they are, no amount of protestations will change that... only practice will.
The thread is : Why did you stop compressing your live rig??
Tunaman said:
It depends what you want... I"ve used 3 brands with built-in compression:
The built-in compressor on EBS preamps is very nice, if you like fairly subtle compression. I.e. nobody but you (and maybe your bandmates and/or the soundperson if he/she is paying attention) is likely to notice that you're using it.
I just got a Multicomp pedal from a talkbasser (hi Wes) and it seems to have the same sound.
The built-in compressor on Eden amps doesn't thrill me. It's more of an "effect" compressor: it's pretty slow on the attack, so the more compression you dial in, the more it exaggerates your attack. Which can sound cool for some songs, but for me I found it gets a bit ridiculous to leave it on all the time. So on the few occasions that I gigged with my WT300, I turned the input gain down to reduce the amount of compression (there's no separate compression control on that amp).
Finally, way back in the day I played through an eighties-model Peavey TNT 130 with non-adjustable, non-defeatable "DDT compression" which was a joke. It was effectively a little LED that would flash on to tell you "turn down because when this light comes on you sound like crap."
99% of the gigs that I've played in my life were with my old GK-400RB and no compression at all, so that's what I'm used to. I just got the EBS pedal so I could play with it for the occasional song and have some more options with my tiny AI Clarus rig, and maybe squeeze a little more apparent volume out of the rig when playing with a loud band.
LOL. What's that called again... circular argument? Tautology? I agree, some people use compressors to compress.Brad Johnson said:
Because topics such as compression, effects, pick technique, Fieldy's tone, Wishnevsky basses (etc) receive as many knee-jerk snarky remarks as do basses with more than four strings (note the sticky warning re negativity towards ERB's). Nearly every time someone asks for assistance regarding such "tools of the Devil", a smug smart aleck or three (not referring to anyone in particular, especially not you, Brad!) chimes in with something along the lines of, "my advice is that you shouldn't have bought that in the first place". How helpful.Brad Johnson said:
Yeah, this has gotten off-topic... I've already posted my on-topic response. And no, I don't recall what comment(s) were made earlier in this thread to reignite the old debate... I'm just answering your Q on defensiveness. My point is, no one should have to defend his method, whether compression or ERB's or anything else. But the fact is, attacks happen (hey, it's the internet).
Fuzzbass said:LOL. What's that called again... circular argument? Tautology? I agree, some people use compressors to compress.
Nah, just saying that the people who use it as a crutch use it as a crutch. That shold not be seen as a slight by anyone not using it as a crutch
And it's obvious from this thread that some use it as a crutch, talking about what can't be done without it.
Because topics such as compression, effects, pick technique, Fieldy's tone, Wishnevsky basses (etc) receive as many knee-jerk snarky remarks as do basses with more than four strings (note the sticky warning re negativity towards ERB's). Nearly every time someone asks for assistance regarding such "tools of the Devil", a smug smart aleck or three (not referring to anyone in particular, especially not you, Brad!) chimes in with something along the lines of, "my advice is that you shouldn't have bought that in the first place". How helpful.
Except in this case I thought the thread wasn't anyone asking for assistance with compression. You're right, that does happen way too often and it would be nice if they didn't have anything more constructive to say than that they'd kindly STFU. Who am I kidding... that's not going to happen.
IMO I see my stance on my use of a compressor in my live rig as a constructive one, not the negative way some seem to want to construe it. I've addressed an issue I had with my technique early on and as a result I can do some things that others say aren't possible... like completely controlling my dynamics manually whether I slap or pluck. I can also slap a fretless without chewing up the board, another impossibility (and hot button issue) in some eyes
Maybe some take that as bragging. It's not... I started out not knowing how to do it and worked my way up to understanding at least that piece of the puzzle. Still have a boatload of other stuff to work on.
It really doesn't take anything to ignite it... the pilot never seems to go out
I'm pretty sure I haven't said one negative thing about using a compressor as a tool yet other people bring up the PA system and/or recording console as if it's relevant to this thread. I don't see where it is.
BTW Happy holidays, FB. Take care and see ya round.
Brad,
Given your experience with refining your technique, maybe you could sketch up a few lessons. Those of us looking to repeat that could start from scratch, but if you've had success with certain practice patterns it will help everyone . . .
WAKOJACO said:
The dreaded anonymous shot. I'm plumb mortified.
BTW typing increases dexterity. Don't try this at home.
farboozle said:
Sure... here's a simple and possibly maddening way to start:
Turn you bass and amp up... the bass completely up, the amp maybe 25% louder than you normally would. If you're running an active bass, set the EQ flat. Passive, leave the tone control wide open.
Now play your bass quietly. Pick a song that you typically have to really work hard at playing, maybe one where you typically dig in hard... and work on getting it as whisper quiet as you can.
The fact is, grooving loud is relatively easy. Grooving quietly while maintaining intensity is a mother.
Try to keep in mind that this isn't about extremes... you don't have to play super light all the time. This'll probably sound corny but here's how I try to explain it: Play you bass as hard as you possibly can. Now don't play it at all. Between those two you have an almost infinite amount of dynamics at your fingertips. If you actually stick with it (because I can't stress enough that this will most likely not happen overnight) you might find that slap dynamics aren't anywhere near as uncontrollable as some seem to think. There are muting techniques for all occassions... stopping the strings is easily just as important as starting them vibrating IME.
An unfortunate side effect is that you'll probably find yourself being able to play much faster than before
I'll be more than happy to help with any questions for anyone who's interested... just remember this isn't a slap in the face to anyone else, it's just something that worked for me that might work for others.
I feel like Splinter
... and maybe I've typed too much. 
The question "Why did you stop compressing your live rig?" keeps reminding me of the old trap question "When did you stop beating your wife?".
