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Why did you stop compressing your live rig??
- Thread starter Mcrelly
- Start date
well i've heard a lot of opinions and why not just play however works for you. man i'm into music for the fun and joy it brings me. i don't need any body telling me im wrong. it's all about the mix, live. you can be the best bassist in the world but if you dont sit in the mix well you might as well be a solo act. whatever tools you employ to make the final product sound its best is what you should use. these days i have a very even attack on my fingerstyle, and i can dig in and pluck louder than i slap. however i find it tiring and it starts to sound different than the sound of a softly plucked string which is the sound i'm diggin' right now. i can also slap quieter than i pluck, but it doesn't sound like i want it to. it does kinda sound like fingerstyle with an added thumb. to get the sound i want i need a certain amount of force and impact. and that is physics. you have to hit the string with a certain amount of force to make it actually contact the fret board and give you that sound. conversly you have to pop your higher strings with enough force to make them do the same thing. once you let the string go it would be like trying to make a rubber band snap back slowly. pardon the pun but it's out of your hands. it's physics. now you can get quieter but only to a point. i use my technique to get the sounds i want and use a comp to bridge the volume gap between them. and sound men love me for it. and btw so do my speakers.
Brad Johnson said:Just curious... does any of what you just said clash with anything I've been saying?
No, I don't think so. That was kinda my point. I particularly agree with the fact that Marcus doesn't slap hard. His slap is tight. BTW, my slap technique is barely (if at all) louder than my fingerstyle. I don't think one needs a compressor to be able to switch from one technique to another. I have always mixed styles in songs, and never felt the need to use a compressor.
Dynamic control is everything, and folks, it just ain't all that hard.
I never use a compressor when rehearsing, and frequently don't use one when gigging. But sometimes I *want* to.M.Gilberto said:
Some people (and I don't mean to direct this post at you or anyone else in particular) say or imply that "compression is to cover improper technique"... that is usually *not* true. To go a step farther: the whole idea is to make good music. If compression makes the music better for whatever reason then it should be used, period.
I've never liked the silly and arbitrary (and in some cases, elitist) rules that some people apply to music, playing bass in particular: "real bassists never use FX, never use compression, never use a pick, never use EQ", yadda yadda. Worry about what works for you and not the other guy... vive la difference.
CrackBass said:
actually you are just as right in saying that slap has to be played with a certain degree of force (and this does usually result a louder sound) as Brad Johnson is in saying that you can play slap without being any louder than normal/soft plucking.
Sounds controverial? if you lower your action you can slap with a lot less force to achieve the same sound (of course not everyone likes a low action, so if you like a high action and slap nonetheless you will need a comp to keep it at approximately the same level as your normal playing)
Just trying to say that both arguments (learn controlling your dynamics can remove the need for a comp vs. using a comp to keep the levels even where it is technically impossible without one) are correct in the appropriate scope.
M.Gilberto said:
And this sums up what I've been saying, IN DIRECT RESPONSE to the idea that it CAN'T work this way, witha live rig.
[Rodney King voice ON]
Can't we all just get along
?
[Rodney King voice OFF]
This is more entertaining than reading the old Behringer threads
- Ugly
Can't we all just get along
?[Rodney King voice OFF]
This is more entertaining than reading the old Behringer threads
- Ugly
Brad Johnson said:As long as you're aware there are exceptions to what you just said
I did say "in the appropriate scope" right?
Hell, I'm against using compression live so that I can "pop" a note every now and then just to freak out the soundman... Kind of like when Spanky from the Little Rascals kept knocking over the microphone in "International Silver String Submarine Band" episode
Bugs Bunny voice ON
"Ain't I a stinka?"
Bugs Bunny voice OFF
- Ugly
Bugs Bunny voice ON
"Ain't I a stinka?"
Bugs Bunny voice OFF
- Ugly
l0calh05t said:I did say "in the appropriate scope" right?
I'm talking about this:
"Sounds controverial? if you lower your action you can slap with a lot less force to achieve the same sound (of course not everyone likes a low action, so if you like a high action and slap nonetheless you will need a comp to keep it at approximately the same level as your normal playing)".
You "will need"?
Brad Johnson said:I'm talking about this:
"Sounds controverial? if you lower your action you can slap with a lot less force to achieve the same sound (of course not everyone likes a low action, so if you like a high action and slap nonetheless you will need a comp to keep it at approximately the same level as your normal playing)".
You "will need"?
uhh... if the action on your bass is high you will need to apply more force to the string (which tends to make a louder sound in the end) to have it touch the frets (esp. when popping), theres no denying that (it really is physics).
of course if you actually want it to be louder you (of course) don't need a comp.
Hrothgar said:
This is one problem ive found. Recording wise, yes, when i have used a compressor between my head and my input, it did cancel out any unwanted peaks. Also found when i was setting a Boss GTB6 for another bass player that when mucking around with harmonics, it would really suck them out, it was a cool effect.
But it seems that how my basses are setup (Cort Curbow 4 and Warwick Fortres Flashback 5), that the slap is actually quieter (well seems that way, unless i really dig in) than my finger style. I do agree that a few hours of practice will do the same effect as a good compressor (as well as being a lot cheaper) and ive almost got the huge inconsistencies out of my playing.
My experiences of playing through compressors have been limited (without looking at sound guys or recording situations) and the ones that have impressed me are the Presonus BlueMax and Guyatone BL-2 (The guyatone probably been one of the cleanest ive played through).
Personally, they're useful in some situations, but not all, volume/dynamics/attack should all be controlled through the hands and unless your trying to get that Marcus tone (Gotten close before on a setup - '75 Reissue Jazz, Fender 800 Head, basically everything flat and a GK RHB?410 Box), its not really a huge issue.
l0calh05t said:
Yes, if the action on your bass is high you will need to apply more force to the string than if it were low. The next part is the problem and there absolutely IS some denying it. Louder than what?
It will not necessarily be any louder based on how high your action is. How loud you are depends on many things, INCLUDING HOW YOU PLAY. High action allows you to play harder... that doesn't mean you'll be any louder. If it did automatically make you louder it would be more difficult to play softly with higher action, wouldn't it? In fact I've found it much easier to play softly with higher action... you don't have to refine your touch to the same degree as with very low action. That's physics
At this point I'll leave you guys to your own devices. It would be great to actually meet IRL and I could show you just what I don't seem to be able to get across in words.
Brad Johnson said:
Yes, if the action on your bass is high you will need to apply more force to the string than if it were low. The next part is the problem and there absolutely IS some denying it. Louder than what?
It will not necessarily be any louder based on how high your action is. How loud you are depends on many things, INCLUDING HOW YOU PLAY. High action allows you to play harder... that doesn't mean you'll be any louder. If it did automatically make you louder it would be more difficult to play softly with higher action, wouldn't it? In fact I've found it much easier to play softly with higher action... you don't have to refine your touch to the same degree as with very low action. That's physics
At this point I'll leave you guys to your own devices. It would be great to actually meet IRL and I could show you just what I don't seem to be able to get across in words.
It allows you to play harder but in the case of slap it also requires you to play harder (not fingerstyle, which means that of course you can also just play that with harder attack but that was not the point)
if there had been a third option, "i never had a compressor in my rig in the first place and still don't", I would have voted for that.
I've got nothing against compression, I use it all the time recording, but live I just don't seem to need it on stage. I might change my mind, or not. YMMV.
-PW
I've got nothing against compression, I use it all the time recording, but live I just don't seem to need it on stage. I might change my mind, or not. YMMV.
-PW
I haven't stopped using a compressor, but I have curtailed it's use.
Ever since I made new cabinets for my speakers, my rig sounds better without much compression. I use it, but slightly.
I really use it more for controlling boominess in certain rooms, which cannot be controlled via techinque. No amount of technique will change the acoustics of a room. I've found compression allows me to keep my tone, and the low notes sound just as good without getting out of control.
When I'm told to take some of the low end out of my rig (in certain boomy rooms), I usually just bring up the compression a notch and leave the low end up there.
A compressor, like any other tool...be it the bass, the amp, the cab, etc. is just a tool to be used to get what you want out of your setup. To say it's like cheating...well, then so is using a particular amp or cab. If it was ALL in your hands, you should sound the same through anything, in any given environment, and we could all use the same equipment.
It's just another tool at our disposal.
Ever since I made new cabinets for my speakers, my rig sounds better without much compression. I use it, but slightly.
I really use it more for controlling boominess in certain rooms, which cannot be controlled via techinque. No amount of technique will change the acoustics of a room. I've found compression allows me to keep my tone, and the low notes sound just as good without getting out of control.
When I'm told to take some of the low end out of my rig (in certain boomy rooms), I usually just bring up the compression a notch and leave the low end up there.
A compressor, like any other tool...be it the bass, the amp, the cab, etc. is just a tool to be used to get what you want out of your setup. To say it's like cheating...well, then so is using a particular amp or cab. If it was ALL in your hands, you should sound the same through anything, in any given environment, and we could all use the same equipment.
It's just another tool at our disposal.
I've tried using a compressor as an effect in my live rig, but I always end up pulling it back out. I've also set one so it is really just a limiter as a sort of speaker protector, but found it to be more trouble than help. Where I like it is in lines that mix harmonics (both natural and artificial) with plucked, hammered, and slapped notes. Some of the harmonics really dont ring very loudly and certain harmonic chords can sound different with a compressor evening them out. I've been thinking about trying one again to see if it helps my harmonics cut through more evenly (I play with two loud guitarists, and one of them has a synth on his guitar). But I probably won't do it as playing harmonic chords is not something I use that much with 2 guitars in a classic rock setting. When I've played in a jazz or R&B setting, I've not ever felt any need for a compressor in my live rig. Perhaps if I wasn't pushing my amp and speakers so hard now, I wouldn't consider the compressor as I really get along fine without it 99% of the time. The remaining 1% is probably more related to the overall stage volume being too loud, the drums not being crisp enough, and the guitarists being oblivious, rather than a need to change my approach.
D'aaahh! I'm sick'a'dis!
I'm sick'a hearing guys talk about compressors being used 'only' to make up for inconsistancy in playing force, and apparently forgetting about the natural decay of each note. A major sound modification brought about with compression (not peak limiting, by definition) is how it affects the decay of each note!
Right?..
Joe
I'm sick'a hearing guys talk about compressors being used 'only' to make up for inconsistancy in playing force, and apparently forgetting about the natural decay of each note. A major sound modification brought about with compression (not peak limiting, by definition) is how it affects the decay of each note!
Right?..
Joe
