We do it for vocals...we play as much as 10 or more gigs a month and we are both in our 40's and it just makes life easier vocally. But it doesnt bother my playing in the least. I have six basses that I gig with.....three are tuned down and three are not for when I sub with other bands. Pretty simple concept really.
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Why do a lot of bands tune to E flat?
- Thread starter flareaga
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I must be having a dumb attack. I play a five string bass primarily. I always strive to play in closed positions (fretted notes vs. unfretted notes). If I have to play a song in the key of Eb, I just fret the 4th fret B string the same as I would on the 6th fret F or 3rd fret D. Why would I ever down-tune?
Is tuning down nothing more than a way for 4 string players to obtain more lower range on the instrument without having to modify the instrument with a detuner or retune between songs or string it differently?
Is tuning down nothing more than a way for 4 string players to obtain more lower range on the instrument without having to modify the instrument with a detuner or retune between songs or string it differently?
playing a 5 string I'm havingthe same thought
and let's say one is playing with a horn section, isn't there a whole lot of mental gymnastics -- I'm playing 'as if' we're in E, but really I'm in Eb AND the horn section really is in Eb all along.
Now next tune is in Bb and jees I used to play that with Bb fretting but now I play it in B fretting, which is really Bb.
or am I missing something?
and let's say one is playing with a horn section, isn't there a whole lot of mental gymnastics -- I'm playing 'as if' we're in E, but really I'm in Eb AND the horn section really is in Eb all along.
Now next tune is in Bb and jees I used to play that with Bb fretting but now I play it in B fretting, which is really Bb.
or am I missing something?
Odd, I've never heard of pianos being tuned to 442 before. However, 'A' has drifted in tuning quite a bit over the last couple hundred years. In the 19th century, it was closer to Ab, then became 440 and remained so until recently where (at least in the "classical world") it has begun to drift up to 442 or even 444. Vocalists don't like this trend and those with vintage string instruments probably aren't too thrilled with the increased string tension on their million-dollar 18th century violins. Wind players aren't keen on it either as it means modifications to their instruments.
Tunings were not completely standardized until the last 100 years or so. Now that seems to be falling apart again...
I was always under the impression that it was mainly for the vocals, but I guess there are various reasons people/bands do it.
In addition to those mentioned - Hendrix, SRV, AIC, etc., can't believe no one mentioned VH! Most of the Roth-era material is Eb. Which, again, points to the idea of doing it for the singer. Because most of the Sammy stuff is in E, but then again, a lot of those songs also had keyboards.
I'm just starting on bass, so I just use a 4-string tuned to E, but for my guitars, I keep one tuned to E and the other is Eb so I can play along (try to -lol) with those mentioned above. Of course, with bass you do have the option of going 5-string and getting the Eb on the 4th fret, like chebass88 said.
In addition to those mentioned - Hendrix, SRV, AIC, etc., can't believe no one mentioned VH! Most of the Roth-era material is Eb. Which, again, points to the idea of doing it for the singer. Because most of the Sammy stuff is in E, but then again, a lot of those songs also had keyboards.
I'm just starting on bass, so I just use a 4-string tuned to E, but for my guitars, I keep one tuned to E and the other is Eb so I can play along (try to -lol) with those mentioned above. Of course, with bass you do have the option of going 5-string and getting the Eb on the 4th fret, like chebass88 said.
Sometimes tune down 1/2 step for the singer's sake--
Like a recording or TV gig the next day.
There are two sets of charts for the hired horn players-
one in concert key, the other 1/2 step down.
The horn players read whats written (even as the saying goes-fly s#%t on paper.
Like a recording or TV gig the next day.
There are two sets of charts for the hired horn players-
one in concert key, the other 1/2 step down.
The horn players read whats written (even as the saying goes-fly s#%t on paper.
Eb is a natural key for horn players, same as E is natural for string players. So a lot of standards are in Eb.
That doesn't explain Stevie Wonder, though.
That doesn't explain Stevie Wonder, though.
Yeah, really has everything to do with the vocalist, and whether:
1. he/she falls into the majority of vocalists that tend to sing flat and
2. he/she is willing to admit it.
Every cover gig I've played in where we've tuned, or transposed is essentially what it is, a half step down the vocals were great and vocalists retained their voices for gigs the next night. Not so much vice versa...
1. he/she falls into the majority of vocalists that tend to sing flat and
2. he/she is willing to admit it.
Every cover gig I've played in where we've tuned, or transposed is essentially what it is, a half step down the vocals were great and vocalists retained their voices for gigs the next night. Not so much vice versa...
The simplest answer is that it really isn't tuned down, but in a different frequency rather. Concert A, standardized by the AFM (Rockerfeller), is 440 Hz; although, natural resonant frequency is actually A=432 Hz.
Resource:
Invalid Link Removed
Other research:
Fibonacci Golden Ratio
Solfeggio scale
Anybody else follow the link? Hint: the word 'chakras' is associated with frequencies. Oh dear...
Anyway, double basses often tune one whole tone higher to F# B E A for classical solo performances, and this requires a completely different set of strings because the tension is so different. It has something to do with the overtones you get being great for playing with orchestral accompaniment when tuned one whole tone higher.
I'm assuming when people describe Eb standard as 'darker' or what have you, they are referring to these different overtones. Although, something tells me the effect would be less pronounced on a solid bodied instrument, and I'm not sure how audible the difference is tuning down only half a step compared to up a whole tone. I've heard a five string acoustic bass guitar tuned E A D G C, and the high C was phenomenal. Want...
If you're just detaining for extending range, cool, I have no beef with that... Same goes for tuning in fifths etc. I have a six string for extended range, and am thinking of installing a detuner on my four string.
Would it be possible to tune to Eb and then capo the first fret and take it off when you need to switch back to Eb?
... or what the speed of light in a vacuum (i.e., where there is no sound) has to do with tuning down here in what I like to call "the real world." You know, where there is actually air and such.
I play in a blues band, and we tune down to Eb because our singer at one point asked if we would mind. We didn't. He has to sing the bloody songs, and if he sounds pitchy it doesn't matter how good or bad we play.
The bass player in his other band does not want to tune down 'cos he thinks it makes his strings rattle too much. So he constantly misses notes and plays a semitone off ... I just re-tune when I get home and use a Tascam for practice.
The bass player in his other band does not want to tune down 'cos he thinks it makes his strings rattle too much. So he constantly misses notes and plays a semitone off ... I just re-tune when I get home and use a Tascam for practice.
My new power trio does it. It's the first time in my life I've had to tune my bass down (except for when the symphony played the Firebird and we had to tune our E-string down to D--messed up fingering for the whole piece--none of us had an extension on their bass). I asked the guys why they do it and they had the usual answer that it was easier on the vocals. Sure would be a bitch if someone wants to sit in using their own axe. Oh well, it's no big deal, I guess.
The guitarist tunes down to Eb so he can use heavier strings without the higher tension that he'd need with standard tuning. Or he tunes down because SRV or some band did, and that's the easiest way to play along with the recordings.
You (the bassist) tune down because the guitarist does. Life is just easier that way. You both use the same names for chords, keys, and notes. And most importantly, if the guitarist is tuned down to Eb, the band is going to be playing a lot of tunes in Eb. Many of them will have important lines based on the low Eb. So you'd need the low Eb. Even with a 5-string, the low Eb sounds much better on an open string. And those lines are easier to play if you can use an open string for the low Eb.
Excellent question.
You (the bassist) tune down because the guitarist does. Life is just easier that way. You both use the same names for chords, keys, and notes. And most importantly, if the guitarist is tuned down to Eb, the band is going to be playing a lot of tunes in Eb. Many of them will have important lines based on the low Eb. So you'd need the low Eb. Even with a 5-string, the low Eb sounds much better on an open string. And those lines are easier to play if you can use an open string for the low Eb.
Excellent question.
Man, a lot of TBers have some expensive solutions to pretty simple problems. Buy a 5 string because your band wants to play in Eb?? No thanks, I'll save the extra $350+ for a tuner pedal and some REALLY nice strings. Or Autotune Bass Edition. And just tune down.
Peace,
Greg
Peace,
Greg
Easy8 said:
And both of these players played by ear not standard notation so it probably wasn't a big thing for them to tune down.
Yeah, I felt disgusted after a sentence on that page. Wish people had half a brain instead of trusting every source online...
This guy actually thinks second is an universal unit of time...
Yeah, you'd be in these horn guys' shoes for once - they have to transpose stuff mentally all the time. You would actually be playing a "bass in B".
The 5 string solution can work for some material, but "open string based" music can become extremely uncomfortable. And if you improvise live, it will throw you and others off whenever looking at each other.
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