Why do a lot of bands tune to E flat?

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

I think it's worth mentioning that, while it's perfectly OK to talk about "tuning in Eb" as long as anybody understands what's being talked about, the correct way of naming the key for a guitar tuned one half step lower than standard isn't "Eb" but "B".

 

[nightwulf]

a ton of bands tuned down a half step.. i know nirvana did it on alot of songs..

Nirvana tuned? Who knew?

 

[Altitude]

I think it's worth mentioning that, while it's perfectly OK to talk about "tuning in Eb" as long as anybody understands what's being talked about, the correct way of naming the key for a guitar tuned one half step lower than standard isn't "Eb" but "B".

I don't follow. Key wouldn't have anything to do with it, right? You can play in any key using any tuning.

 

[eloann]

What he's saying is your bass becomes a transposing instrument. That is, when you're playing a C, the note that comes out of your amp is a B (or Bb for 1 whole step down, and so on). Just like the french horn guy sounds "F" when he thinks "C"

 

[s_mcsleazy]

singers

 

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

What he's saying is your bass becomes a transposing instrument. That is, when you're playing a C, the note that comes out of your amp is a B (or Bb for 1 whole step down, and so on). Just like the french horn guy makes an F when he thinks he's playing a C.

You said it the short (and clear) way. Thank you so much! Anyway, here's the long explanation (since I already started writing it down):

I don't follow. Key wouldn't have anything to do with it, right? You can play in any key using any tuning.

You are right, but I'm talking about transposing instruments. When you have a piece of sheet music for an instrument, play what's written and the pitches that come from your instrument match the written stuff, that's a non-transposing instrument. By definition, that instrument is tuned to the key of C. Examples of non-transposing instruments are violin, flute, oboe, bassoon and piano.

But when the pitches that come out from your instrument don't match the printed music, you are playing a transposing instrument, and that means that it is not tuned to the key of C (which is considered the "center", "root" -or whatever you want to call it- key). So, in the same way the pitches are transposed from the actual ones, the key in which the instrument is tuned is also transposed.

So, what does it mean when you say that an instrument is in Eb (like an alto saxophone), in Bb (like a regular trumpet) or in F (like a French horn)? The best way to understand it is: All those instruments have a pitch which is called "C". But when you ask a French horn player to sound a "C", what you hear is an "F" if you play the same pitch on a piano. So, the note that's called "F" in "real life", it's a "C" for the French horn. Hence, it's in F. In the case of the alto sax, an Eb for the piano is a C for that instrument, so it's in Eb.

So, in the case of a guitar/bass, you know where to find a C note, right? Let's say the G string, 5th fret. That's the standard tuning for the instrument. But if you lower the whole instrument's standard tuning one half step, what you'll hear from the G string at the 5th fret is a B. Hence, the guitar/bass is not in C, but B. The basis for that assertion is the fact that, if you are presented with a piece of sheet music for bass and you see a C note, you automatically know where it's located. But oops! When you fret that C note in the place you've been taught, you don't hear a C but a B if the instrument is downtuned one half step.

BTW, guitar and bass are transposing instruments since the real pitches are different from those written for them. They sound one octave lower than written, so that makes them transposing instruments as well. But since the tuning difference is a full octave, it doesn't affect the instrument's key, which is still C.

Hope this helps.

 

[Meatrus]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Jimi Hendrix yet. He often/usually/(always?) tuned down to Eb.

Not always, I think all the first album was standard tuning, Purple Haze etc.

In answer to the question, yes it makes a difference, hit a wrong note by a semi tone and see what reaction you get.

 

[Altitude]

You said it the short (and clear) way. Thank you so much! Anyway, here's the long explanation (since I already started writing it down):

You are right, but I'm talking about transposing instruments. When you have a piece of sheet music for an instrument, play what's written and the pitches that come from your instrument match the written stuff, that's a non-transposing instrument. By definition, that instrument is tuned to the key of C. Examples of non-transposing instruments are violin, flute, oboe, bassoon and piano.

But when the pitches that come out from your instrument don't match the printed music, you are playing a transposing instrument, and that means that it is not tuned to the key of C (which is considered the "center", "root" -or whatever you want to call it- key). So, in the same way the pitches are transposed from the actual ones, the key in which the instrument is tuned is also transposed.

So, what does it mean when you say that an instrument is in Eb (like an alto saxophone), in Bb (like a regular trumpet) or in F (like a French horn)? The best way to understand it is: All those instruments have a pitch which is called "C". But when you ask a French horn player to sound a "C", what you hear is an "F" if you play the same pitch on a piano. So, the note that's called "F" in "real life", it's a "C" for the French horn. Hence, it's in F. In the case of the alto sax, an Eb for the piano is a C for that instrument, so it's in Eb.

So, in the case of a guitar/bass, you know where to find a C note, right? Let's say the G string, 5th fret. That's the standard tuning for the instrument. But if you lower the whole instrument's standard tuning one half step, what you'll hear from the G string at the 5th fret is a B. Hence, the guitar/bass is not in C, but B. The basis for that assertion is the fact that, if you are presented with a piece of sheet music for bass and you see a C note, you automatically know where it's located. But oops! When you fret that C note in the place you've been taught, you don't hear a C but a B if the instrument is downtuned one half step.

BTW, guitar and bass are transposing instruments since the real pitches are different from those written for them. They sound one octave lower than written, so that makes them transposing instruments as well. But since the tuning difference is a full octave, it doesn't affect the instrument's key, which is still C.

Hope this helps.

I see what you meant now. When you detune to Eb, the note you used to think was C is now B. I get it.

 

[kanonfodr]

You said it the short (and clear) way. Thank you so much! Anyway, here's the long explanation (since I already started writing it down):
...

I'm sorry, but I can't quite follow that. Pitch is assigned to a frequency: A5 (what most modern music uses for it's standard for tuning) is 440 hz, Middle C (C4) is 261 hz, and every other note has frequency that humans have assigned it to.

When a bass guitar is tuned to A440, every note is the same frequency but where it appears on the fretboard may change if you change your tuning. E1 on the bottom string, when tuned standard, is an open note. The same frequency (~41 hz) that we have assigned to the Pitch of E1 is found on the 2nd fret if we were to tune that same string, on the same instrument, to the D below E. It's still the same frequency, simply found in a different place on the fretboard.

When it comes to transposing, all pitches are the same but where we find them on the fretboard is dependent upon tuning. No matter where it appears on the fretboard, B is B. But some pitches can't be found on our instrument because it's out of the range. C1 can't be found on a 4-string tuned to E-standard, it's below the range of the instrument. C3 however is the pitch of the High C string on a bass guitar, if so equipped.

Peace,
Greg

 

[prd004]

Not always, I think all the first album was standard tuning, Purple Haze etc.

In answer to the question, yes it makes a difference, hit a wrong note by a semi tone and see what reaction you get.

Do this in any tuning and the effect is the same.

Usually people tune down a half step to help the singer

 

[Groove Master]

There are 3 main reasons that I can think of, to tune down a 1/2 step:

1) to accomodate the lead vocal range, especially with age, the voice range tend to go down and this brings the 2nd reason,

2) If the music is based on open strings riffs and power chords, it helps maintaining the same voicings and fingerings.

3) It does sound meanner and heavier especially at slow tempos.

BTW, some people, mainly guitar players call it the A=430 when tuning down a half-step. I'm not sure it is exactly at 430 but it is close.

 

[Crystalman85]

Some bands(mostly metal bands) likes lower tunings. my friend's band plays songs in E flat. personally, I like to play song in a low B tuning. in my band, I play songs in a low B tuning. If I didn't played songs in a low B tuning, I would definitely play songs either in E flat or D flat.

 

[VitalSigns]

I heard someone call it D# tuning once.

 

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

I'm sorry, but I can't quite follow that. Pitch is assigned to a frequency: A5 (what most modern music uses for it's standard for tuning) is 440 hz, Middle C (C4) is 261 hz, and every other note has frequency that humans have assigned it to.

When a bass guitar is tuned to A440, every note is the same frequency but where it appears on the fretboard may change if you change your tuning. E1 on the bottom string, when tuned standard, is an open note. The same frequency (~41 hz) that we have assigned to the Pitch of E1 is found on the 2nd fret if we were to tune that same string, on the same instrument, to the D below E. It's still the same frequency, simply found in a different place on the fretboard.

When it comes to transposing, all pitches are the same but where we find them on the fretboard is dependent upon tuning. No matter where it appears on the fretboard, B is B. But some pitches can't be found on our instrument because it's out of the range. C1 can't be found on a 4-string tuned to E-standard, it's below the range of the instrument. C3 however is the pitch of the High C string on a bass guitar, if so equipped.

Peace,
Greg

I see your point, but what you haven't taken into account is the fact that the "science" behind a transposing instrument is a comparison between the way it's written in standard musical notation and what you actually hear when the performer plays what's written. You are right: B and any other note are always the same, no matter where you find them in your instrument's playing area. But there's a standard way of tuning a bass, and teaching/learning to play the instrument is based on that standard. If your instrument's tuning complies with it, you'll hear a 131.8 Hz C note if the sheet music in front of you tells you to play a C on the first upper ledger line (bass sounds one octave lower than written, according to the standard). Just the fact of your instrument sounding a pitch which is called the same as on the sheet music is enough to make an statement: "This instrument is tuned to the key of C".

Now, if you tell a trumpet player to play any pitch without using any valve, you'll hear any of the notes belonging to the harmonic series of Bb. Since those sounds are the most natural for the instrument (no valves involved), the root of that note series is called "C" by the trumpeter. But what you hear is a Bb. That's why the trumpet is in Bb. Now, for me here's one of those "unanswered questions" that all of us have (I think): According to that logic, the slide trombone should be a transposing instrument (in Bb) since the pitches you get with the slide closed are those from the harmonic series of Bb (same as in the trumpet). But the slide trombone is a non-transposing instrument (what you read is exactly what you hear) and I don't understand why it was standardized that way.

All that transposing instruments stuff is just a convention. It doesn't imply changing the actual notes' pitches in any way.

 

[bryan gibson]

I find it really pointless to tune down or up, unless it is for obtaining notes that aren't in your normal range.

You don't need to down tune to accomodate singer, only change keys ... but I get that if you down tune it is because you want to keep the same pattern where you learned them, which is really lazy and you don't learn anything.

Making the music darker ??? seriously ... next time you comme up with a riff, play it in different key it will do the same effect. Unless you wanted lower note because it sound darker since it is played on low notes ...

Making bending easier ??? come on ...

Making easier to play with horns in Eb, Bb ... I get that but still, you do really need your lowest note to be your root ? To me it sounds like you don't want to work with creativity with the limitation of your instrument.

But I guess it is how it is in rock music

Yup, meaner sound and easier bending/fretting. Or so sez Tony Iommi. Four pages in and no mention of Black Sabbath. IIRC, Iommi detuned even lower on some occasions.

 

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

BTW, some people, mainly guitar players call it the A=430 when tuning down a half-step. I'm not sure it is exactly at 430 but it is close.

Ab4 (one semitone lower than A 440) is 415.3 Hz.

 

[jimmy rocket]

but what about New Standard Tuning

 

[Ric5]

To make it a nightmare to learn new tunes on a 4 string.

No problem with a 5

Actually instead of E flat people should tune D standard.

 

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

A5 (what most modern music uses for it's standard for tuning) is 440 hz, Middle C (C4) is 261 hz, and every other note has frequency that humans have assigned it to.

Just noticed this and want to comment: If you call the middle C "C4", then the A 440 should be also called A4 since it's in the same octave as the middle C.

 

[Groove Master]

Ab4 (one semitone lower than A 440) is 415.3 Hz.

Thanks for the precision ;-)

I'll tell my friends guitarists LOL