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Why do bands need to play so LOUD !!
- Thread starter fearceol
- Start date
The famous "wall of speakers" often seen at metal shows are typically "walls of empty cabinets" in reality.
One major issue with drums nowadays is that modern drum kits are a lot louder than the old-school kits. Advances in technology and construction have made it a lot easier to get a lot of volume out of them without even playing them that hard.
I wish there were drums still being made like they were in the 1940's and 50's. Or is it possible to alter a modern drum kit with tuning, vintage-type heads, etc. to get all the great tone but a lot less loud?
I wish there were drums still being made like they were in the 1940's and 50's. Or is it possible to alter a modern drum kit with tuning, vintage-type heads, etc. to get all the great tone but a lot less loud?
Sorry, maybe it's just the old man in me, but there's no way in an age of PA support that 5 large cabinets is "appropriate" in any way, shape or form. Whether it's lugging that stuff around, or sheer stage volume- it's overkill, and not in a good way.
No offense intended, but you clearly are not familiar with the genre at all; there is likely no PA, nor is any desired. The intention is to create massive amounts of low end power in the room; there's often no stage, just the band and the audience feeling the same pressure. It's not intended to be a "let's go and listen to some music being played, sitting in chairs like in our living room, but with a light show." It's a physical act of art and expression that blurs the line between music, performance art, and social interaction. Sorry if that sounds pretentious.
Yeah, it does. But it sounds better than "loud enough to make everyone **** their drawers."
I've posted this before on here, but I've seen plenty of my favorite bands, similar genres to what my band is doing, who have had their stage volume blasting and the PA was used to just fill in the rest of the room and it's never sounded bad. Some of the worst live mixes and tones I've heard, came from bands being quiet on stage and the PA doing the heavy lifting.
As I said, the point is for our band, which is nothing but drums, and bass, to be as loud, and louder a lot of times, than most other heavy bands, and for the music to be as much of a physical experience as it is auditory.
As far as lugging that stuff around, well, I'm 21, and lugging all this stuff around has me in way better shape than I was before we started this band. So no complaints there.
Well, actually megadan and Metal Matt both play in bands that don't have a vocalist.
And the no PA holds true to many more underground(ish) genres. There might be a PA but it's just for vocals and some chosen instruments or the kick drum(s).
Exactly. As far as larger venues/shows go, it seems like in most underground music scenes, the bands are a lot more demanding of having their way, as far as soundmen are concerned. I've seen it so many times, bands with the guitars and bass blasting on stage... so in the PA, the drums and vocals get priority. Bass and guitars are still in the PA, but much quieter, turned up just enough to fill in the rest of the room.
Basically, yeah.
When my band plays it's generally amps carrying the room, the PA if there is one would only be for kick drum.
In larger clubs we do mic up everything, and we are able to adjust our stage volume to proper levels. 9 times out of 10 the soundman is cranking the PA to within an inch of it's life and generally pushing the volume pretty high. Don't really have much control over that.
When my band plays it's generally amps carrying the room, the PA if there is one would only be for kick drum.
In larger clubs we do mic up everything, and we are able to adjust our stage volume to proper levels. 9 times out of 10 the soundman is cranking the PA to within an inch of it's life and generally pushing the volume pretty high. Don't really have much control over that.
+1
The idea that playing through the PA is somehow superior to stage volume perplexes me, I've heard more terrible mixes through a PA than I have stage volume shows (total amateur jackasses aside).
Didn't the original post refer to rehearsal? Onstage volume is a different situation altogether. I don't disagree with what people are saying about performance, the PA SHOULDN'T do all the work. A rehearsal isn't the same as a gig though, the volume should be at a reasonable level where everybody can hear what's happening clearly.
No one is talking about playing "quiet" on stage, merely not at a roof lifting, ear splitting level.
That is a physical experience alright.... the physical experience of having your hearing shredded.
Yes. My original post referred to rehearsal, though the whole general debate here is interesting.
The last band I was in finally ended up building a plexiglass wall between the drummer and the rest of the band in our rehearsal space. It wasn't so much that the guy was an especially loud player, it was just a very small space. The approach was born of compromise; we never liked being seperated from the drummer by a wall (the poor guy had to use his vocal mic to converse with the rest of the band) but after exhaustive discussion the band finally concluded that if we had to mic the horns (and a trombone will put out close to100 dB easily) in rehearsal we were rehearsing way too loud.
I'm thinking that makes sense when you take the genre into consideration. I think that different priorities are in play when you start talking about blues, or even most rock. I am going to guess that a band like Sunn O))) is producing more volume in the 80 - 150 Hz range than many house PAs are equipped to handle, is which case is is more like the band is bringing it's own, highly specialized PA system to the show. To use the PA for much more than filling in at a medium sized venue or smaller might well be more that the PA could handle, anyway.
Ignoring the issues specific to hyperloud niche metal I propose that a little bit less stage volume becomes your friend. Blues and rock (and jazz, bluegrass, etc) require a balance of volume between instruments producing a variety of different frequencies. This is more difficult to achieve when you are listening from the stage, and much more difficult to achieve if one guy is playing a volume way outside of what everyone else is producing. This is true in rehearsal or on stage, and I think most of us are doing our best to play well in either venue.
Actually Sunn, uses normal cabs and amps on stage. Old Sunn tube amps and 4x12 cabs, and for bass Ampeg amps and 8x10's. LOTS OF THEM. In the tech riders they send out to venues they simply state that they play at 125db on stage, everything gets mic'd/DI, and that the PA operator must be comfortable with "high volume maximizing of the PA". I've seen some tech riders where they request that PA be used as amplification for the low frequencies of the mic'd guitar and bass cabs. They also have synth and things like that, that are blasting on stage, and also go through the PA.
But getting back to what OP was talking about. I think in ANY band, whether it's a doom band, or a blues band, EVERYONE has to be in agreement with an issue like volume. You can't just have one person turning up louder and louder. Even though I only have one other person to deal with in my band, I talked to him very in depth about why I wanted our band to be as loud as it is and he agrees with me. I've been in bands in the past where a couple members kept turning up, and it always sucked. The truth is, the rig I play through, all the vibrations and high volume do leave me feeling pretty worn out and tired at the end of our set, which is the point and all, but it's not useful to practicing. So when we practice I usually only use part of my full setup. Never any good to be tired and worn out and trying to write something. And in a full band setting, it's even worse if everyone keeps trying to out-loud each other.
the guitar shouldn't be an issue. doesn't mean that it's not. if you're someone that HAS to have the cranked tone then you either need to get an attenuator or buy a few different sized amps and amp to the room. this is coming from someone with not much money who loves the cranked tube amp tone and builds his own tube amps. one of my favorite is a 1.5 watter that i use for church. a fender champ is too loud... but this little guy does the job. if not, i would use my weber mass.
i agree... you don't have to play loud. it's pretty annoying to me... and i'm only 31.
