Why do I play so DIFFERENT?

[Blue Dragon]

Not exactly humor, but I think this would still be construed as a 'gig story'.

I've been playing (practicing really) weekly for about 2 months now. We get along great and sometimes they embarrass me with their compliments as I really don't think I'm all that good. Fortunately, they're not either so it works out well anyway.

But I've noticed one thing during last night's practice that is really starting to bug me. I play very DIFFERENT with them than I do when I'm just working out songs at home. Specifically, I am hitting the strings SO much harder, and I know at home I don't need to do that. And I f*** up so much more playing with them than I ever do at home!

I can think of 3 possible reasons for that...

1. When I'm at home, I'm easy to hear myself since I adjust the volume to be that way. When I'm with the band, I subconsciously try to play louder to make up for it. Fortunately I do have a self-limiter (the kind in the head, not hardware) that keeps me from actually cranking my volume up and starting a volume-war.

2. Nerves. I'm actually very comfortable with the guys. We all get along absolutely fine. Even had one suggest coming over for a boat ride sometime. So I don't THINK I'm nervous. But who knows what evil lurks in the my brain?

3. Power. These guys are, frankly, loud as hell. I practice with a 20 watt practice amp at home which is more than enough. I got a used Hartke 15" 250watt combo for playing with them. I'm not sure if it's enough. No one else is running anything near that power, but 100watts of screaming guitars sounds one hell of a lot louder than mine. I intentionally try to keep my bass quiet to hopefully drag them down to tolerable levels. But also if I crank it too much, the poor amp simply doesn't sound as good. I hear the term 'farting out' a lot and that may be what I'm hearing.

But the really odd thing to me is, I play with another group where I know the guitar player VERY well and it's never been an issue when I play with them. However, the other group does play drastically different styles and volume is never an issue there. More pop than rock and more vocal-oriented.

Anyway, I'm curious of your thoughts. Do you play drastically different when practicing solo than playing with others? We've our first (freebie) gig in a few weeks, and I'm definitely looking forward to that.

 

[organworthyplayer337]

For me it's the opposite; I screw up a ton when practicing and when it's game time, I clean up my act. Everybody's different.

 

[charlie monroe]

You should crank that amp up and control the volume with your right hand. It will force you to develop a lighter touch, which in turn should improve your accuracy because you aren't playing with brute force any longer.

edit: By right hand, I mean your plucking hand. Not sure if you are a lefty or not.

 

[Vanceman]

I used to do that... practice one way, then play different, hitting the strings much harder in the band setting. I have enough power now (GK700 + 410), and have been playing with them for so long now (10 years), that I can relax, play lightly, and sound good at all volume settings. Sometimes, on a big stage in an outdoor setting, when I can't hear everything so good, I just go into auto-pilot mode, and try not to revert to hammering away. Not as much fun, but it is what it is.

 

[shawshank72]

For me it's the opposite; I screw up a ton when practicing and when it's game time, I clean up my act. Everybody's different.

Same here.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I agree with Charlie.
Also it's nerves.
Heck 20 watts of guitar amp is a lot.
300 for bass is normal.

 

[Fat Freddy]

I play better at home than I do when I'm playing at my teachers place....Dunno why....

I told him this....Don't think he believed me!....

 

[Laklandfan]

For me it's the opposite; I screw up a ton when practicing and when it's game time, I clean up my act. Everybody's different.

There's no time like show time.

 

[jeffreylee]

Playing with a band, particularly a loud band is a totally different beast to playing at home. I try to figure out exactly what I need to hear (and feel) to make my playing work in the context of the band. This usually means me standing in a particular place and positioning my amp in such a way to get the perfect balance of bass and drums. In really loud bands I've also been known to put my foot on the kick drum leg in practice so I can really feel what it's doing. You also need to tweak your tone to fit in with the sound of big guitars and kick drum. Think about how the sounds all slot together and figure out where the bass fits -usually above the kick drum, but below the guitars. If the bass sound is too fat, it will sometimes just turn to mud in the mix. As Vanceman suggested, you need a rig with enough power that you can play soft or hard depending on the situation. The other thing worth considering is earplugs. Cymbals and the high end of guitars can hit your ears so hard that it's nearly impossible to hear anything clearly.

 

[jamro217]

It may be a mental thing. I can play to a full stadium to 20,000 strangers without any problems at all, but I tense up and get nervous playing at home for family or friends. Maybe it's the music that puts you into a frenzy.

 

[organworthyplayer337]

It may be a mental thing. I can play to a full stadium to 20,000 strangers without any problems at all, but I tense up and get nervous playing at home for family or friends. Maybe it's the music that puts you into a frenzy.

Same. I'd rather play to thousands of people than to play in front of my family and friends

 

[viper4000]

Here are things that worked for me in the past:
1) Proper EQ of all instruments. Guitars need the bass trimmed out plain and simple. Each instrument has a frequency sweet spot. Most experienced musicians understand that the tone and EQ you like to hear practicing alone is different than the tone and EQ you need to blend properly in an ensemble setting.
2) competing with a guitarist using a 100W amp is a lose/lose situation. You/they will lose your hearing, and you lose the ability to hear all instruments. Just because they have 100W, does not mean they need to use 100W. I'm sure each will say they need the gain dimed to get their tone. But that does not mean the master needs dimed (or eleven'd) too. A 250W combo will never be able to compete with these. There are many threads here discussing the pure wattage needed to compete with a 100W guitar stack.
3) Wear ear protection. You need to do this anyway. Listen to advice from folks that did not listen to this advice.
4) Turn down, no really, turn down. My bands are almost always well received (sound wise) even in venues where most bands cannot dial in a good sound. The other bands feel they are rawk gods and have to peel the flesh off your face in order to have street cred. All the audience hears is mud. Very loud mud. And ringing in their heads. Turn down, use option 1 from above, and your audience and your ears will thank you.

I'll also agree that cranking the volume on your amp and then learning how to play with a softer touch will enhance you overall technique and will prevent you from feeling the need to "dig in" too far when the passage needs a boost or the band really starts rocking.

Good luck OP

 

[Vanceman]

Another thing I have been doing is, in addition to playing along with the CD, I will play the songs by myself, bass only, from beginning to end. That lets me hear my weak spots, and judge my feel for the song. It's a comfort level thing.

 

[Blue Dragon]

Thanks for the replies all. I think the #1 takeaway for me will be to go out and get those earplugs though... Really! It may or may not help with my playing issue, but I've already thought it would be a good idea with these guys anyway. Maybe not on stage but during practicing in a relatively small space anyway. My left eardrum has been sounding like it's got water in it for weeks now. Busted probably.

More power I'd love to have. But my wallet says no at the moment. It's always been, and will always be a hobby for me, but I'll need to wait on any major purchases after this summer's vacation sucked the life out of my account.

 

[Fat Freddy]

Another thing I have been doing is, in addition to playing along with the CD, I will play the songs by myself, bass only, from beginning to end. That lets me hear my weak spots, and judge my feel for the song. It's a comfort level thing.

Yep!....I do that too....really helps me

 

[Johnny Crab]

I think the #1 takeaway for me will be to go out and get those earplugs though... Really! It may or may not help with my playing issue, but I've already thought it would be a good idea with these guys anyway. Maybe not on stage but during practicing in a relatively small space anyway. My left eardrum has been sounding like it's got water in it for weeks now. Busted probably.

@Blue Dragon: DO IT NOW!!!

My ears got abused from the age of 16 to 19 and then in bands from 19 to 32 and then 2006 to present. Had NO issues until we got a guy who has major hearing issues added to the band 3 feet to my right. One night at a small club he stepped on his volume pedal that goes to 6 million dB and went to about 5.9 million. My right ear had physical pain on the drive home. It is now at least 3 to 6 dB lower in sensitivity than my left ear. I now have ear plugs in my right rear pocket since that night. If he, or ANYONE, gets loud and they go in. At 60 years old with no damage until 58 years old, it is late to realize that there is little or no market for deaf musicians. My day job is in a petrochemical plant for the past 26+ years and we have mandatory 33dB NRR earplug use in ALL areas of the plant. Take care of your ears, there are no replacement parts that are equivalent.

PS: the "quieter ear" is useful if wifey is snoring. I simply lie on my left side with the left ear on the pillow and the "damaged" ear facing up and things are quieter.

@Blue Dragon: turn your amp up so you are loud enough without wrecking your fingertips even if you have to use earplugs. You seem to need more power and/or acoustical output in the "loud band". Figure out how to do that because they are stuck on loud. It is okay to play hard on aggressive lines and get your fingers tougher but it is NOT okay to have bandmates' volume cause blisters or bleeding fingers.
Don't get confused by the compliments, take them as rewards for practicing at home but also don't let them swell your ego either. "Normal" good/great bassists are much more wanted than super-players with ego problems.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Crank up the volume, and hit the strings lighter. It doesn't make sense to turn your volume down, and play harder with a band that loud. You gotta do the opposite imo.

 

[Ubersheist]

2. Nerves.

3. Power. These guys are, frankly, loud as hell.
...................

But the really odd thing to me is, I play with another group where I know the guitar player VERY well and it's never been an issue when I play with them. However, the other group does play drastically different styles and volume is never an issue there. More pop than rock and more vocal-oriented.

Nerves will get the best of you. Just play simply, well within your range. Don't try to stretch yourself too much all the time at band practice, and not during a show.

The sad fact is that 99% of musicians are too loud, and mostly it's the guitarists, but drummers and keyboards can be just as bad, too. Most musicians are unawaringly self-centered. They figure if they sound good, then they don't look like an idiot on stage and they will fit in with the band. They don't realize that they're playing over and on top of you, and that it's difficult for the bass guitar (a less dynamic instrumetn then others) to meet other instruments in intensity if they're too loud. In more experienced musical circles, it's just plain rude. Often, their 'awesome' tone would be great, if they were playing alone in the room, but it is destroying the rest of the band. Also, many 'musicians' don't know how or when to NOT play, play less (like only one or two notes a bar, not play straight, common rhythms, or even sit out for a few bars throughout a song, etc.), let things breathe, let the other instruments (like your bass) add subtleties to the song. These are shortcomings of your fellow musicians.

Here are things that worked for me in the past:
1) Proper EQ of all instruments. Guitars need the bass trimmed out plain and simple. Each instrument has a frequency sweet spot. Most experienced musicians understand that the tone and EQ you like to hear practicing alone is different than the tone and EQ you need to blend properly in an ensemble setting.
2) competing with a guitarist using a 100W amp is a lose/lose situation. You/they will lose your hearing, and you lose the ability to hear all instruments. Just because they have 100W, does not mean they need to use 100W. I'm sure each will say they need the gain dimed to get their tone. But that does not mean the master needs dimed (or eleven'd) too. A 250W combo will never be able to compete with these. There are many threads here discussing the pure wattage needed to compete with a 100W guitar stack.
3) Wear ear protection. You need to do this anyway. Listen to advice from folks that did not listen to this advice.
4) Turn down, no really, turn down. My bands are almost always well received (sound wise) even in venues where most bands cannot dial in a good sound. The other bands feel they are rawk gods and have to peel the flesh off your face in order to have street cred. All the audience hears is mud. Very loud mud. And ringing in their heads. Turn down, use option 1 from above, and your audience and your ears will thank you.

I'll also agree that cranking the volume on your amp and then learning how to play with a softer touch will enhance you overall technique and will prevent you from feeling the need to "dig in" too far when the passage needs a boost or the band really starts rocking.

Good luck OP

Good points. A poorly eq-ed guitar with too much bottom end will BURY you as a bassist, and make the whole band sound like mud. Depending on the stage and room, but almost without doubt, you'll sound like mud if the other musicians aren't eq'ing their respective instruments, and altering their playing style (like with a harder, bridge attack for a punchy sound or palm muting while playing, for example).

The problem is that most guitarists and other offenders have no idea how difficult they are making your job for you as a bassist. The rare few are golden, and so fun to play with, though... And the ones who are bad, or play too loud, often are super sensitive about it or have easily bruised egos. It's sad, and almost futile to try to get them to turn down. Ug.

 

[dbase]

Let your amp do the work, not your fingers. You can never have enough wattage for bass. Dont let them play over you and dont forget the food and the chick pics if you play out. Thanks

 

[cheapbasslovin]

Bands screw stuff up. Recorded music, not so much. If your band is a little shaky on a song, any one of you making a small mistake is enough to start everyone into a confidence check, which can spiral out of control. Once everyone is really good with a song, it's a lot harder to tear up the tune, even if one guy is playing a completely different song.