Why do keyboard players insist on this?

[Slevage]

It is fairly common for keyboards to output a mono signal if you plug into the left output only and stereo if you plug both left and right in. So no need for a Y cable. I have that that sometimes I get asked for stereo and other times mono. Personally when I was mixing for my band (small bars) I would mix in mono- much simpler for me since I was also playing keys and bass

If the keyboard player is making custom patches, the R & L sounds may or may not get summed. I have a Direct box that has 2, 1/4" inch jacks-- they can be used as one in, one out, OR 2 in (L ,R)----- then one XLR to the mixer

 

[s0c9]

Ours does it so the sound tech can pan certain songs from one side of the room to the other.

You don't need stereo inputs for that..

 

[ggunn]

Fair enough. Other than occasionally panning a signal to balance and/or unclutter a mix, i think it just creates hassle. Generally, If done improperly, by a non-pro, it creates mixes that don't sound good to all audience members, which is the point of live sound reinforcement.

We can agree that if one does not know how to configure a stereo PA appropriately for the venue, he should stick with a mono system.

 

[s0c9]

That's a very common comment and one with which I strongly disagree.

As someone already mentioned.. each to their own.. but I have to disagree with your disagreement.
Stereo live is worthless. Too many artifacts that cause a "bad" audience experience if they are not correctly located in the stereo space.

That's why most live music runs as mono. Vocals, guitar, drums/percussion, bass, strings are ALL MONO inputs to FOH. Keys are the general exception and I have never panned 2 keys input channels L/R on the console. No point. The effect is lost on the audience.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me how ANY single MIC/Input on a single channel (say) LEAD vocals, kick, snare, guitar gets to the PA in stereo even with L/R feeds from the console!!

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

First let me say I'm not disagreeing with what keyboard players do, I just don't understand it. Probably because I'm not a sound man, and only do sound to the extent I have to, to survive gigs.

When I play with a keyboard player, he will often insist that I use a two stereo inputs on the mixer for his keyboard. I don't understand why he wants this. He says it will sound better, but I don't understand how. For me, stereo means you can send selected sounds to one speaker, and another set of sounds to a different speaker. If the same sounds are going to each speaker, then where is the advantage of plugging a stereo cord into the same channel on a mixer?

I've been doubling on boards recently and I don't give a hoot about stereo. No one in the audience cares unless it is a big gig with a real FOH. So I'm happy with mono.

 

[ggunn]

As someone already mentioned.. each to their own.. but I have to disagree with your disagreement.
Stereo live is worthless. Too many artifacts that cause a "bad" audience experience if they are not correctly located in the stereo space.

That's why most live music runs as mono. Vocals, guitar, drums/percussion, bass, strings are ALL MONO inputs to FOH. Keys are the general exception and I have never panned 2 keys input channels L/R on the console. No point. The effect is lost on the audience.

I refer to my previous post; if you cannot configure a stereo mix appropriately to the venue, then by all means you should stick to mono. Also, most/all of the arena and outdoor shows I have been to in the last 30 years have been presented in stereo (a few of them were in quad). Club gigs, not so much, but sometimes. Mono is mono but there are many ways to utilize stereo capability.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me how ANY single MIC/Input on a single channel (say) LEAD vocals, kick, snare, guitar gets to the PA in stereo even with L/R feeds from the console!!

You definitely should stick to mono mixes.

 

[mellowinman]

Whenever I run sound my whole system is in stereo. My keys go into two channels, which I pan fairly wide. I do placement with instruments, often times to the other side of the system from where the instruments' amp is. My guitar player gets panned away from his side of the stage, and my wife's bass gets slightly panned away from her side.
I pan the toms so that when he does fills, there is some movement to them. I don't hard pan anyone; and I go out front and listen for dead spots.
I wish everyone would mix that way. Rock and roll sounds better in stereo.

 

[s0c9]

You definitely should stick to mono mixes.

Perhaps you should learn what stereo is?
You seem to be unaware that stereo requires 2 sounds sources.. and thus, a single mic source cannot be stereo. Do a google search for stereo mics?
Being able to pan that source L/R in the PA does not make it stereo.

 

[Slevage]

Perhaps you should learn what stereo is?
You seem to be unaware that stereo requires 2 sounds sources.. and thus, a single mic source cannot be stereo. Do a google search for stereo mics?
Being able to pan that source L/R in the PA does not make it stereo.

You can, however, do a stereo mix with several single mics.

 

[ggunn]

Perhaps you should learn what stereo is?
You seem to be unaware that stereo requires 2 sounds sources.. and thus, a single mic source cannot be stereo. Do a google search for stereo mics?
Being able to pan that source L/R in the PA does not make it stereo.

I was kidding because I thought you were. Of course no monaural source (like a single element microphone) is stereo. It is the mixing of mono (and stereo if there are any - most are not) single sources into two channels of output that makes for a stereo mix if the two channels are not identical. If they are identical it is effectively a mono mix. Mono is mono but there are many degrees of stereo and many ways to build a stereo mix. Some of the early Brit stereo albums were mixed with drums and bass centered, vocals panned hard one way, guitars all panned the other way. I do it differently.

I have been mixing sound live and in the studio for over 35 years. You may rest assured that I know what stereo is.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

That's incorrect use of a Y cable anyway and will potentially cause issues with the sound and the device.
Y cables are designed to SPLIT a single signal output into 2 identical copies (1 -> 2), NOT MERGE a L/R (or 2 different) signals into one (2 > 1).. you need a mixer for that!

Depends on the design of the Y cable. I once had a Ric with stereo and I used a cable that split L and R at the Y so I could run through a bassman on one channel and a twin on the other.

 

[JansenW]

What is the make and model of the keyboard?

 

[DWBass]

I haven't read the entire thread. But many synths have stereo sounds which actually sounds pretty nice if your PA rig is stereo. But I also understand if you have a small mixer with limited inputs why you wouldn't want to use 2 channels. If you have a channel with stereo RCA inputs, have him use this and not 2 whole separate channels. I disagree that some sounds get lost. Many R&B and Jazz shows utilize a stereo Rhodes image and other useful sounds that ping back and forth. If you're lucky enough to have a mixer with stereo inputs, go ahead and input him in a stereo channel. I'm not a fan of using dual inputs and panning left and right.

 

[Downunderwonder]

That's a very common comment and one with which I strongly disagree.

Disagreeing with physics is a losing proposition. Commonly your bar band has a pair of main speakers. The majority of the audience hears mostly the one closest speaker and stereo is lost.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a patch or mode control for getting away from < bass keys left, treble keys right > setup.

 

[mellowinman]

Disagreeing with physics is a losing proposition. Commonly your bar band has a pair of main speakers. The majority of the audience hears mostly the one closest speaker and stereo is lost.

I do not find this to be true. It could depend on the room, and it could depend on speaker placement. It definitely could depend on volume! I can hear our stereo mix pretty good all throughout the rooms we play; this does not include the really tiny ones, or weird shaped rooms.

 

[s0c9]

I was kidding because I thought you were. Of course no monaural source (like a single element microphone) is stereo. It is the mixing of mono (and stereo if there are any - most are not) single sources into two channels of output that makes for a stereo mix if the two channels are not identical. If they are identical it is effectively a mono mix. Mono is mono but there are many degrees of stereo and many ways to build a stereo mix. Some of the early Brit stereo albums were mixed with drums and bass centered, vocals panned hard one way, guitars all panned the other way. I do it differently.

I have been mixing sound live and in the studio for over 35 years. You may rest assured that I know what stereo is.

LOL - I "assumed" you knew, but was playing along.. unfortunately, one never knows the knowledge level of the poster from reading a couple of posts... yes.. I agree with all your comments quoted above. While not a professional (as in making a living from it), I also have been running sound mostly live (and a fair bit of studio) for at least 25.

 

[s0c9]

Depends on the design of the Y cable. I once had a Ric with stereo and I used a cable that split L and R at the Y so I could run through a bassman on one channel and a twin on the other.

Yes, you are correct.. I forgot to qualify my post with "standard design" of a Y cable.. .there are Y cables that are designed to be able to merge vs split, tho not "commonly available"..

So where.. was the Y on the Ric?

 

[s0c9]

I do not find this to be true. It could depend on the room, and it could depend on speaker placement. It definitely could depend on volume! I can hear our stereo mix pretty good all throughout the rooms we play; this does not include the really tiny ones, or weird shaped rooms.

Are you really running a stereo mix or panning channels L and R to compensate for the stage wash?

 

[ggunn]

Disagreeing with physics is a losing proposition. Commonly your bar band has a pair of main speakers. The majority of the audience hears mostly the one closest speaker and stereo is lost.

I do not disagree with physics but I do exert a modicum of control over it. Every venue is different, and my mixes are accordingly different. It is possible in many rooms to afford a bit of stereo imaging in the center of the sound field without diminishing the experience of those who are listening from the sides. Sometimes, for example, I have a keyboard in the mix with a stereo chorus effect. Panned L & R it produces a bit of imaging in the center while those who are so close to one of the mains that they can only hear the one they are close to simply get a mono chorus effect. That might be the only thing in my mix that is stereo. Nobody gets cheated and the sound in the center is a little enhanced.

Stereo or mono is not an either-or proposition. Mono is mono, but there is stereo and then there is stereo. To flatly say that stereo never works is just not so. I know better.

I always wire up stereo, and if somehow the situation warrants that the system be in mono, I pan everything to the center. Done.