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Why do keyboard players insist on this?

#41
s0c9 said:
Are you really running a stereo mix or panning channels L and R to compensate for the stage wash?
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I'm sorry, but I don't even know what that means. A mix which is different in the left and right channels is by definition a stereo mix. It can be a little different or a lot different, but it's stereo just the same. It's a continuum; some of my mixes are mono or close to being mono and some are not. It depends on the venue, the equipment, the makeup of the band, their stage volume, the material they are playing, the way they want it presented, etc.

BTW, I am not a "set it and forget it" soundman. Every minute that the band is playing I am either manning the board and making changes as they are needed, or I am walking the venue making sure things sound as good as I can possibly make them sound everywhere. For the duration of the gig I work as hard as the folks on stage.
 
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#42
ggunn said:
I'm sorry, but I don't even know what that means. A mix which is different in the left and right channels is by definition a stereo mix. It can be a little different or a lot different, but it's stereo just the same. It's a continuum; some of my mixes are mono or close to being mono and some are not. It depends on the venue, the equipment, the makeup of the band, their stage volume, the material they are playing, the way they want it presented, etc.

BTW, I am not a "set it and forget it" soundman. Every minute that the band is playing I am either manning the board and making changes as they are needed, or I am walking the venue making sure things sound as good as I can possibly make them sound everywhere. For the duration of the gig I work as hard as the folks on stage.
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LOL - that reply of mine was directed at mellowinman not you..
 
#43
Gravedigger Dav said:
Depends on the design of the Y cable. I once had a Ric with stereo and I used a cable that split L and R at the Y so I could run through a bassman on one channel and a twin on the other.
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In that case the signal flow is the opposite---- one out, split to 2; with the keyboard it would be 2 out combined to one;
As others have said- you need a mixer for that. A cheap resistance mixer would work.
 
#45
s0c9 said:
Yes, you are correct.. I forgot to qualify my post with "standard design" of a Y cable.. .there are Y cables that are designed to be able to merge vs split, tho not "commo
So where.. was the Y on the Ric?
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It Was at the amp end of the cable. Plugged the cable into the Y split bridge pickup to the twin and the neck pickup to the bassman. Learned this in an article on Chris Squire. That's what he did, but I can't remember if he used a bassman precision something else.I know he used a twin
 
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#48
Mystic Michael said:
For one thing, stereo output for keyboards lends a more spacious, "airy", three-dimensional quality to the sound - something that's far more important for keyboards than it is for bass. For another, it allows for the use of stereo sound effects - which typically sound GREAT with keyboards. So strictly speaking, it isn't necessarily the case that a stereo signal will send exactly the same sounds to each speaker or set of speakers, as the various sound modulations will be cycling back and forth from one side to the other.

I suspect that your keyboard player knows exactly what he's doing. You should go with the flow, and stop being a PITA.

MM
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Never was a PITA (Pain in the ass) to any keyboard player over their use of stereo inputs on the mixing board. I just plug the cable into the mixer and do what they say. But I've often wondered (quietly, to myself) why this is so important to them. Hence my question.

Of all the responses above, the one that makes the most sense to me is that certain sounds on a keyboard actually do move between the speakers, producing a different sound at each speaker, such as the Leslie sound. I'm not sure this is the only reason, thought, as my most recent keyboard player played with a straight acoustic piano and Rhodes sound for the entire gig -- and I question if those sounds are even different at each speaker. But he said he wanted to use a stereo cable so I just took it from him and plugged it in.

By the way, our rig is a Crown Amplifier

http://www.amazon.com/Crown-NXLS1500-0-US-Power-Amplifier/dp/B003HZV2JS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1418399727&sr=8-2&keywords=Crown Amplifier

Behringer Mixer
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-X1222USB-BEHRINGER-XENYX/dp/B0036ECH1M/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1418399845&sr=8-10&keywords=Behringer Xenyx

And two Kustom, 15" monitors that we place behind us on stands. So, they act as both mains and monitors at the same time.

It actually sounded really good.
 
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#49
PauFerro said:
I just plug the cable into the mixer and do what they say. But I've often wondered (quietly, to myself) why this is so important to them. Hence my question.
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Based on my experience with them over years of running sound, I'd have to say it's mostly because they have a Left and Right out, and they think they need to use them.. :woot:

/end_sarcasm
 
#50
bwardmusic...........yeah, many times a keyboard run in stereo can really fill out the space and add more to the mix out front. That's is if the keyboardist knows what he's doing and using the right sounds. If he's just asking for 2 inputs just because he has 2 outputs, then no. But like I said, you should have a couple dedicated channels that have stereo inputs (most likely RCA), use those and not 2 separate channels panned L&R. Tell him to have the proper cables (1/4" to RCA) to facilitate. If he uses multiple keyboards, he should own a 'sub' mixer or multi-channel amp and then run a stereo feed to the main mixer.

Oh and be careful using the 'B' word and Kustom! It makes folks angry and annoyed! ;)
 
#51
This really has more to do with the issues associated with trying to run a PA mix in stereo as opposed to mono. There's a whole range of issues related to this, best left to the soundman.

If your PA is in stereo, then get the effect of the keys by running stereo. If not, the mono out from the keys is the best bet.
 
#55
In all seriousness I'm running sound right now with a few things panned to open up the mix a bit here's a board pic if anyone's interested. No keys in this band but still might be worth something to the discussion.
 

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#57
I was in a instrumental group in the 80's that ran stereo mains. All instruments provided stereo feeds or else were mixed mono. It was the best sound I have ever heard live. This was a very clear sort of hi-fidelity sound though.
 
#58
ggunn said:
That wasn't the case for this instrument. We listened to the two outputs separately (and yes, without plugging connectors into both outputs at the same time) and one was predominately the low keys and the other was the high keys. It was a non issue anyway as we always ran a stereo PA with lots of channels in that band. He always got his stereo feed. I occasionally ran stereo (two amps, two mics, two channels) for my guitar, too.

To the other poster: I have on occasion used a Y cable to combine a stereo signal to mono, but I am not proud of it. :D
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I haven't read through all of the reply, but there is usually a way to turn off that scaling feature so that the entire keyboard comes out of both outputs. It's a cool effect on big PAs, but not practical in most situations.
 
#59
TripleDouble said:
Fair enough. Other than occasionally panning a signal to balance and/or unclutter a mix, i think it just creates hassle. Generally, If done improperly, by a non-pro, it creates mixes that don't sound good to all audience members, which is the point of live sound reinforcement.
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Every mixer and powered-head mixer is built for stereo operation. It's just not at all hard to do these days.

And any system, be it mono, stereo, quad, Dolby 5:1 can sound bad in the wrong hands.

But you do make a really good point relating to panning and placement. In fact, I may the the only (former) pro audio engineer on the planet that does NOT pan the toms in the PA. I don't want the folks upfront and close to the right side of the rig to miss that massive floor tom sound coming from only the left side of the rig. Stereo keyboards, organs, and guitars aren't as drastic an effect, as that will create a sense of space and bigness that is apparent to pretty much the entire audience, believe it not (I've heard some guys do some awesome things with the Roland Jazz Chorus guitar amps.

And a good and well-programmed stereo reverb can do wonders for a mix with a lot of mono instruments (not the bass or kick drum, though...:D)
 

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