Why do keyboard players insist on this?

[Geri O]

Stereo instrument and PAs, properly deployed and in the right space, give a sense of space and "bigness" that is pleasant and impressive. To me, the Quad PAs and all the surround variants and all were overkill and didn't give the dramatic improvement that a good stereo rig offered over a mono rig (and my older buddies that were deploying quad rigs in the day will disagree...).

 

[mellowinman]

How many ears does the average human have?

We hear in stereo.

Why wouldn't we want to listen to live music the same way we listen to recorded music?

And why are live albums mixed in stereo?

As for panning toms, you don't HARD pan them, so that people don't hear sounds. You have to do nuance.

 

[Geri O]

How many ears does the average human have?

We hear in stereo.

Why wouldn't we want to listen to live music the same way we listen to recorded music?

And why are live albums mixed in stereo?

As for panning toms, you don't HARD pan them, so that people don't hear sounds. You have to do nuance.

I agree with you post, but since I brought up panning toms, I'm gonna ASSUME you are dressing my statement on that.

Nowhere in that post did I say anything about hard-panning the toms. There, I looked again. Nope, that ain't there. Well, speaking of nuances, I did say something about folks on the left side of the PA missing a tom panned to the right. But I still didn't say "hard".

Nonetheless, the way I want to (or used to want to) treat the toms in the mix still stands. Nuances can vary when the audience is 500 folks or 25,000 folks.

You handle them the way you want, I'll handle them the way I want (if I mix again).

 

[mellowinman]

I agree with you post, but since I brought up panning toms, I'm gonna ASSUME you are dressing my statement on that.

Nowhere in that post did I say anything about hard-panning the toms. There, I looked again. Nope, that ain't there. Well, speaking of nuances, I did say something about folks on the left side of the PA missing a tom panned to the right. But I still didn't say "hard".

Nonetheless, the way I want to (or used to want to) treat the toms in the mix still stands. Nuances can vary when the audience is 500 folks or 25,000 folks.

You handle them the way you want, I'll handle them the way I want (if I mix again).

Well, if the tom isn't hard panned, folks on the left won't miss it. Plus, (and this is very important,) the sound person should always go out into the audience to hear if there are dead spots. There should be nowhere in the entire venue where something in the right speaker would not be heard in the left. Now, I realize, in some venues, this is simply not possible. The deader the spots, the softer the pan. If there is a marked difference in what can be heard where, all panning may have to cease.

But if it is a box-shaped venue, and there is good speaker placement, panning is not only possible, but it provides vastly superior sound, as there is movement. Just as we don't want two things to occupy the exact same frequency, we do not want them to occupy the same physical space. Just as you listen to headphones, its good to put certain instruments wide out, (both left AND right,) lead vocals down the center, and harmonies slightly panned. Kick drum and bass can still inhabit that center channel, but since guitar uses a lot of the same frequencies as vocals, it's nice if it is slightly different in how its placed.

I mean, you can soft-pan by only a few degrees and radically alter a mix. To me, it makes no sense at all to mix in mono, unless the room limits you to it.

The thing about mixing in stereo is that its easy to muck it up. But if its done correctly, it provides far more interesting sound, and will make the audience a lot happier, and they won't even know why.

 

[ggunn]

Well, if the tom isn't hard panned, folks on the left won't miss it. Plus, (and this is very important,) the sound person should always go out into the audience to hear if there are dead spots. There should be nowhere in the entire venue where something in the right speaker would not be heard in the left. Now, I realize, in some venues, this is simply not possible. The deader the spots, the softer the pan. If there is a marked difference in what can be heard where, all panning may have to cease.

But if it is a box-shaped venue, and there is good speaker placement, panning is not only possible, but it provides vastly superior sound, as there is movement. Just as we don't want two things to occupy the exact same frequency, we do not want them to occupy the same physical space. Just as you listen to headphones, its good to put certain instruments wide out, (both left AND right,) lead vocals down the center, and harmonies slightly panned. Kick drum and bass can still inhabit that center channel, but since guitar uses a lot of the same frequencies as vocals, it's nice if it is slightly different in how its placed.

I mean, you can soft-pan by only a few degrees and radically alter a mix. To me, it makes no sense at all to mix in mono, unless the room limits you to it.

The thing about mixing in stereo is that its easy to muck it up. But if its done correctly, it provides far more interesting sound, and will make the audience a lot happier, and they won't even know why.

Thanks. Seems like most of the time I let myself get dragged into this argument, I am the only one in favor of stereo FOH.

 

[Geri O]

Thanks. Seems like most of the time I let myself get dragged into this argument, I am the only one in favor of stereo FOH.

Not the only one...

I've done it professionally for 25 years, until recently. I've mixed for national acts, plus I handled the live audio mix for 2 record labels on their live recording shoots, and I still mix the MS Symphony Orchestra, as well as 3 other orchestras in various configurations.

I'm pretty sure I know how to handle a stereo mix. I'm done with this discussion.

 

[Blankandson]

When Led Zeppelin had their guitar sound floating around Kiel Auditorium in 1967 people insisted they had a 4-channel quad PA. What they had was four mics (one on each side of the Leslie) going into a dedicated PA system just for that sound. Four amps each going to a small speaker array hanging in each of the four corners. The sound just moved as the Leslie rotated. Sounded great but the rest of the PA was mono. And it also sounded great! And it added about 4 hours to the set-up and take-down time.