Why Do people prefer thinner necks?

[steve_rolfeca]

Name two identical basses with one having a thicker neck, and the other one with slim neck that you have personally A/B'd with the same strings, same amp/cab, same settings, same room, and same distance from while playing.

Apparently you'd rather change the subject, than comment directly on my response to your off-topic statement about tone equaling three factors- pickup and string type, and EQ.

But since you opened the door to return to the subject of neck thickness, I’ll rise to the challenge: I grew up in a family music business, and served as my father’s repair and setup tech for over 20 years. In my early days, I personally butchered a number of inexpensive instruments (mostly Harmony guitars and basses), thinning the necks in an attempt to make them “faster”. Up to a certain point, it actually worked rather well, but on the occasions when I overdid it, I caused problems ranging from dead spots to loss of sustain. I ran into similar issues on more than one occasion when re-necking Fenders for customers and friends. They would present me with an instrument with a heavily shaved neck, and I would cure the resultant problems, by swapping in a stouter neck.

These strike me as perfect examples of back-to-back tests with identical instruments; surely, you can't get more identical than using the same axe. I could go on, but why bother? Your ignorance of the basics of tone production is clear. One recent comment was a gem:

Besides - magnetic pickups don't pick-up neck thickness.

Let's talk about dead spots. Regardless of the cause, they affect the harmonic overtones present in notes played at or near the dead spot, and result in a significant loss of sustain on the affected notes. The effect on tone is clearly audible, not only when the instrument is played acoustically, but when plugged in.

So, it seems that magnetic pickups are able to read and reproduce the resonant effects of neck construction pretty faithfully…

 

[BassGen]

Wow, this is taking on the tone of religion or politics...

 

[Muaguana]

Re: Thicker Neck = thicker strings = more tone.

I assumed the same was true with basses, that a thicker neck will better cope with increased tension. YOu can get much more resonance going with a thick neck / thick strings. I dont have any scientific evidence to this effect, just anecdotes and personal experience.

I expected experienced bass players to identify with larger more toneful basses, and suspect that alot of guys get stuck using thin necks because that is what they started on (was easier to play initially), but because of poor techique (palming the neck), they NEED thin necks to feel comfortable, at the expense of greater tone.

Even after everyones' responses, I still harbor this belief. Do yourselves a favor, learn the proper grip and develop confort with a big-ass bass. Your tone will thank you.

First off, if you don't have scientific evidence, don't preach something like it's the truth unless you want to be seen as someone talking (and/or typing) out of your ass.

Secondly, if that's the belief you harbor, that's fine. Go forth and be a happy cabbage (or stoner, as the case may be.) Do NOT, however, try to give backhanded advice to perfect strangers as if what you're saying is 100% factual, when again it is just an example of you TALKING OUT OF YOUR ASS.

I have no idea whether or not you smoked a joint and got hammered before typing up your poorly-worded OP and response, but do yourself a favor and don't smoke pot or drink beer before engaging in interpersonal communication. Your sober self will thank you.

 

[2400]

I'd just like to hop in on this by quickly adding that some of us - including me - "palm the neck" as it's called out of health issues. Keeping your wrist straight is, for both fretting and plucking hand, the best way to keep mine pain-free. For my left hand, that involves grabbing it, from time to time, as I always move my thumb to the most comfortable position.

It has nothing to do with "poor technique".

If you're interested in learning more about this concept, I recommend Link Removed

 

[SabreATK]

I am sooo happy that the most experienced guy to relay his experience in this thread, agrees that thicker necks improve tone.

 

[SabreATK]

I'd just like to hop in on this by quickly adding that some of us - including me - "palm the neck" as it's called out of health issues. Keeping your wrist straight is, for both fretting and plucking hand, the best way to keep mine pain-free. For my left hand, that involves grabbing it, from time to time, as I always move my thumb to the most comfortable position.

It has nothing to do with "poor technique".

If you're interested in learning more about this concept, I recommend Link Removed

If that guy held his bass more vertical and a bit higher, he would have a better LH technique.

I keep forgetting that the dexterity demands of bass are generally less than guitar and many experienced players can get away with this kind of approach because it works well enough. Try shredding modes on your bass, or two octave arpeggios and you will quickly realize the need for another approach to holding the neck.

I'm done. The choir done been preached to already.

 

[Muaguana]

I am sooo happy that the most experienced guy to relay his experience in this thread, agrees that thicker necks improve tone.

The most experienced guy who likewise hasn't given any scientific evidence to support his claim. If you really want to see that as a victory, it's your funeral.

If that guy held his bass more vertical and a bit higher, he would have a better LH technique.

I keep forgetting that the dexterity demands of bass are generally less than guitar and many experienced players can get away with this kind of approach because it works well enough. Try shredding modes on your bass, or two octave arpeggios and you will quickly realize the need for another approach to holding the neck.

I'm done. The choir done been preached to already.

I guess you managed to miss that whole thing about the people adjusting their technique for HEALTH issues? As in, they do something out of necessity and not because they're lazy or bad musicians? Any of this ringing a bell? Or are you too full of yourself in thinking that you're some guitar guru that you draw judgments on all players regardless of their medical condition?

Also, you apparently don't know what "preaching to the choir" means. Chalk up another strike against your already unimpressive intellect.:scowl:

 

[SabreATK]

See, someone else has already preached to the choir, and it's not gonna work round these parts here!

I am a genius actually. Stanford Binet = 145. (Not the omni mag or online crap tests.) They gave the best of the best this test back in 4th grade, and let me tell you it means absolutely nothin on the internet! Which means im 3 SDS or about 1:1000. Prbably smarter than all of your family, friends, and anyone within a one mile radius of you.

YOu bore the **** out of me.

 

[stepswork4me]

Intellect without humility is a waste. Concession to the simplest of answers is impossible without it.

 

[Stumbo]

Are any of you guys really palming the neck?

I do. Keeps my wrist straighter. For me, less 90 degree wrist bends the better. I palm my guitar neck also.

I can do both but it's more comfortable for me. Never a wrist problem in either hand. My right hand stays straight as well.

 

[Oobly]

Apparently you'd rather change the subject, than comment directly on my response to your off-topic statement about tone equaling three factors- pickup and string type, and EQ.

But since you opened the door to return to the subject of neck thickness, I’ll rise to the challenge: I grew up in a family music business, and served as my father’s repair and setup tech for over 20 years. In my early days, I personally butchered a number of inexpensive instruments (mostly Harmony guitars and basses), thinning the necks in an attempt to make them “faster”. Up to a certain point, it actually worked rather well, but on the occasions when I overdid it, I caused problems ranging from dead spots to loss of sustain. I ran into similar issues on more than one occasion when re-necking Fenders for customers and friends. They would present me with an instrument with a heavily shaved neck, and I would cure the resultant problems, by swapping in a stouter neck.

These strike me as perfect examples of back-to-back tests with identical instruments; surely, you can't get more identical than using the same axe. I could go on, but why bother? Your ignorance of the basics of tone production is clear. One recent comment was a gem:



Let's talk about dead spots. Regardless of the cause, they affect the harmonic overtones present in notes played at or near the dead spot, and result in a significant loss of sustain on the affected notes. The effect on tone is clearly audible, not only when the instrument is played acoustically, but when plugged in.

So, it seems that magnetic pickups are able to read and reproduce the resonant effects of neck construction pretty faithfully…

See, someone else has already preached to the choir, and it's not gonna work round these parts here!

I am a genius actually. Stanford Binet = 145. (Not the omni mag or online crap tests.) They gave the best of the best this test back in 4th grade, and let me tell you it means absolutely nothin on the internet! Which means im 3 SDS or about 1:1000. Prbably smarter than all of your family, friends, and anyone within a one mile radius of you.

YOu bore the **** out of me.

Goodness me....

Hopefully I can add a little objective input here. A thick neck has just the same chance of having dead spots as a thin neck. It's all about the design and resonance.

A heavily modified neck may introduce dead spots by altering the resonance. The resonance affects the string vibration, the string vibration gets picked up by the pickups... QED.

However, a bass with a thin neck can sound just as good as one with a thick neck. The tone is generated by a whole bunch of things, neck design included. A thicker neck of the same wood will have a different resonance, but changing the wood will have just as much if not more of an effect.

For instance, a bass with a really thick balsa wood neck will most likely not have a fuller tone than one with a thin wenge neck.

So, IMHO, a thin neck does not automatically equal a thin tone and vice versa, although a thicker neck of the same wood may have a resonance which appeals more to your ear, just as the thinner neck may appeal to another's ear.

As an aside, wisdom trumps intelligence every time.

 

[Antoanto]

+1 on Oobly's
Focusing on just one variable of a complex systems is the best way of completely missing the point.

 

[cnltb]

I ask this question, both as a guitar player of many years, and as a new bassist.

The thumb goes on the back of the neck, and the finger approach from the top. There is really only 1/4" depth difference (or so) between thin necks and fat ones, so a thicker neck doesnt realy alter your LH technique much at all, and not where it matters. It really doesnt effect playability, if you have a proper technique, IMO. Of course neck width does, and the fretwork, strings, and other factors like finish do.

The benefit of a thicker neck is beefier strings, and better tone.

When I got my bass I wanted a big chunk of wood, so I got an ATK. My guitars are all skinny little Ibanez guitars, but I have never had problems with big neck guitars.

Does a preference for thin necks mean small hands and/or bad technique?

i prefer bigger necks as I find them more comfortable to get around on.

 

[bass9454]

Guitards are not welcome on this forum.

 

[Darkstrike]

This thread is hilarious.

 

[JayBassD]

I have really small hands so I feel more comfortable. I get my tone from other places, I don't feel like having a slimmer neck makes my bass sound naff.

 

[mongo2]

Goodness me....

Hopefully I can add a little objective input here. A thick neck has just the same chance of having dead spots as a thin neck. It's all about the design and resonance.

A heavily modified neck may introduce dead spots by altering the resonance. The resonance affects the string vibration, the string vibration gets picked up by the pickups... QED.

However, a bass with a thin neck can sound just as good as one with a thick neck. The tone is generated by a whole bunch of things, neck design included. A thicker neck of the same wood will have a different resonance, but changing the wood will have just as much if not more of an effect.

For instance, a bass with a really thick balsa wood neck will most likely not have a fuller tone than one with a thin wenge neck.

So, IMHO, a thin neck does not automatically equal a thin tone and vice versa, although a thicker neck of the same wood may have a resonance which appeals more to your ear, just as the thinner neck may appeal to another's ear.

As an aside, wisdom trumps intelligence every time.

+1

 

[steve_rolfeca]

My apologies for the tone of my last post. I sometimes see red when armchair guitar techs ignore the fundamentals, in their eagerness to turn a simple discussion into an abstract, philosophical pissing contest.

Obviously, as long as the size of a neck is within useable limits (which vary depending on the materials used), it shouldn't have a detrimental effect on tone. Equally, the simple, demonstrable effects of changing setup parameters like string gauge, pickup height, action height and geometry, etc., on tone are, of course, a matter of taste. Techs use them all the time, as a means of fine-tuning the response of an instrument to user preference.

As far as left hand position goes, you don't need classical technique in order to make good music, as many great artists have proven. The only place where that discussion leaves the realm of preference, is in the area of ergonomics. Some hand positions (closed vs open hand position, radically cranked wrist, etc.) have a negative impact on circulation, and put more strain on the hand, as anyone who has experienced an RSI can attest.

 

[spade2you]

I am a genius actually.

For a genius, you do not seem to grasp some fairly basic concepts that are mostly common place for us simpleton bassists. I've even spelled it out for you in plain English and you don't seem to grasp it.

 

[Jim Nazium]

See, someone else has already preached to the choir, and it's not gonna work round these parts here!

I am a genius actually. Stanford Binet = 145. (Not the omni mag or online crap tests.) They gave the best of the best this test back in 4th grade, and let me tell you it means absolutely nothin on the internet! Which means im 3 SDS or about 1:1000. Prbably smarter than all of your family, friends, and anyone within a one mile radius of you.

YOu bore the **** out of me.

Welcome to Talkbass, bro! I can tell it's going to be a ton of fun having you here.