Why do people think that more notes = better?

[Theorybass'd]

Someone's probably said it but I'd day it's to do with personality types man or how people grow up can definitely influence what they see is good

 

[vin*tone]

Performance and music are different.

For me Mark King and Jaco Pastorius are like people who can juggle 3 eggs and a chainsaw while riding a Unicycle. Amazing to watch but it's not necessarily great music.

 

[JaredBT]

No. I was just referencing my experience with more that a few fun-loving ex-cons who had enough time to figure out how to fake it, possessed a cool enough "hang/vibe" to get into situations beyond their skills, and would then pull out the crazy-card when criticized. Lords knows we are all works in progress!

Oh man, this guy.... you absolutely could not play with him. It was impossible. He'd screw it up constantly then point his finger at either myself or the guitar player. One day I had enough of his ex con bullying attitude and fired back to get him going. Lucky for him it didnt get there. Its crazy how many laughs Ive had talking with players that have ran into him at various open mics. Easily half a dozen...

 

[basschanges]

yea, of course.

 

[esa372]

...not listening to the music, just gawking at the technique.

There's your answer.

 

[Korladis]

it depends what the music needs

 

[Scott Lynch]

Horace Silver wrote a book called The Art of Small Jazz Combo Playing, Composing and Arranging. There's a section in the book where he talks about his concept of how music hits people. He uses three dimensions - mental, emotional and physical - and to reinforce his point he describes a handful of musical examples/genres that emphasize one or two of these dimensions. If for nothing else than this example, the book is a great read. IMO, Mr. Silver knew his stuff.

I find that while I am drawn to a variety of styles, I am always looking for a certain balance (or sometimes imbalance, depending on my mood ) of these elements when listening to music, and especially strive for balance when playing it. It's certainly clear, just by the variety of opinions on this thread, that everyones 'balance' of music impact is different. I would also venture to guess that one's preferred 'balance' likely changes over time. Mine certainly does. Heck, I prefer different music in the morning than I do in the evening.

The one thing that I'd be reticent of, if anything, is to invalidate anyone else's experience or opinion because it differs from my own.
Does more notes = better? For (perhaps but certainly not exclusively) the more cerebrally inclined listener, then yes and that's totally ok. If no, that's also OK.

 

[okcrum]

Performance and music are different.

For me Mark King and Jaco Pastorius are like people who can juggle 3 eggs and a chainsaw while riding a Unicycle. Amazing to watch but it's not necessarily great music.

You may have noticed that they also play rests.

 

[Honch]

My question is: why do so many people assume that playing more notes, or playing faster, means you are a better musician? Is it just that they don't understand music, and, in particular, the role of the bass in most songs?

Yngwie Malmsteen left Sweden for US, since no one cared for his fretboard antics around here. They basically still don't. I think actually that non-musicians, the ordinary people that listens to music in a casual way, doesn't want to listen to virtuosity for that long, and most people I know just gets "nervous" and think it's boring to listen to.

However, when it comes to musicians, especially when starting out, have a urge, and hunger, and an alpha male strutting feathers style, that just wants to show off. Just like a circus act. Now, this is not all musicians. These are mostly in the rock world, and hard rock world as far as I can see. In jazz, you had a number of fusion artists that can play swift, and with intensity, but I'll say it's not common and dime a dozen. Especially when young jazz musicians starting out today. On top of this I can sense that this shredding thing is solely within the guitar community and to a lesser degree bass community. Never ever heard of a singer that sings words as fast as a cattle auctioneer, being revered. I don't mind that circus acts exists within music. It's a thing for some people. Mostly kids, and families. I don't scold people who likes show-off shredding bass players or guitarists.

Now, with bass, there's a couple of bassshredders that has come through, while I not reckon neither Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, as such, I think it's more about people like Billy Sheehan, Stanley Clarke, Wooten, and some more. But by and large those over the top virtuosic players has come through in spite of them playing fast. I do agree with you somewhat that the listening experience and understanding of music is still in their start, and not "acquired taste" or cultivated enough yet. I do listen to all kinds of musicians, and whenever faced with that guy you described above, I tell them "I listen to musicians in spite of they're playing fast, or in spite of they're playing very slow". It's never been any yardstick for me judging any music and musician. I recall in my youth days, sure thing I liked Al di Meola, Stanley Clarke, McLaughlin too, but I liked other things too, a lot of "slow" blues/rock music, and even some new age windham hill thing. Michael Manring is very skilled, but I think his virtuosity is beyond "fast". He has other aspects in his music and playing.

- - - - -

In classical music, there's the same perception with the uninformed audience. However, with classical music, it requires a lot prerequisites, and former information and conditioning before you can start to appreciate all aspects of it. That's why I like some of the classical musicians, and audience, because inside that audience, you can never ever get away with just being swift and fast and very virtuosic on any instrument. Youll have to admit that even if the play fast, the music can still be boring. Or not. But not beacuse of the speed. It's like "you just should be able to play that, and has always been like that, nothing to get worked up over". You can't impress people with show off speed only. All other aspects of a performer is judged just as equal, and you're definitely not a better musician just because you can play many notes. I wish that some of this validation and perception could be spilled over to the other genres of music.

 

[Honch]

FWIW, I think "classic" old school Prog hasn't the most virtuosic "busy" of bassists. It is in the math metal, and djent metal genres. Isn't the old adage like this? A true gentleman is someone who can shred, but doesn't?

 

[Korladis]

I dunno, seems pretty common in jazz, too. Most jazz solos I hear bore the **** out of me. Most solos in general, really.

 

[JimmyM]

So I just formed an instrumental avant jazz/rock band with a shredder guitarist and a drummer who hates 4/4. Thanks to this thread, I've decided to drop out of it. You guys are right...I should only play music that you like. Never mind what I like...music should only exist only to please you, and if it doesn't, it's crap.

 

[Honch]

To your BIL, you should top him and patronize him by saying "Chris and Geddy's fast? Nah, listen to this guy instead...!" and show him YT flicks with Nathan Navarro or someone esle. And then top that one with a new kid on the block you've found on YT. Your BIL would not stop hanging around the internet finding one better than the other all of the time....

Shred bass... there you go, anyone heard of this guy? I havent. Why are he not known? Wait until the middle breakdown comes when he goes from tapping to plucking...an old Steve Morse tune, of course called TUMENI NOTES! :



More is more...

 

[Mr_O'B]

One thing that I've noticed is that bassists that routinely play fast (finger style or slap) with many notes tend to lack feel when it comes to playing different styles of music!

 

[JimmyM]

One thing that I've noticed is that bassists that routinely play fast (finger style or slap) with many notes tend to lack feel when it comes to playing different styles of music!

I've noticed that hacks will do that, but not so much when you get into the good well-rounded players.

 

[Mr_O'B]

I've noticed that hacks will do that, but not so much when you get into the good well-rounded players.

A good example of a well rounded bassist is Janek Gwizdala. He plays with speed, fair amount of notes, feel and does well in a band.

 

[cnltb]

Why do people think that more notes = better?

...because they are too young/inexperienced to know any better.

 

[Joybass]

There also are people who say: "Huh, you play bass?? Isn't it much more fun to play guitar and stand in front of the band and be the star?"
Everyone has the right to believe wat he/she wants, say I.

 

[interp]

My brother-in-law is a great guy. He's smart, funny, and fun to hang with. We get along great. But when it comes to music, he's not knowledgeable. As such, he always equates "fast" and "busy" with better. Its like he's not listening to the music, just gawking at the technique.

Whenever we are together, he ALWAYS asks me if I can play Yes or Rush. He will show me You Tube clips of these guys, and say, "now THAT's bass playing." I have nothing against Geddy or Chris; they are gods. But that style of out-in-front playing just never appealed to me very much. I'm more interested in bass lines that provide a foundation and groove for the song, and/or establish a counter-melody. I find the bass lines of guys like James Jamerson and Paul McCartney much more interesting. That's just my preference.

My question is: why do so many people assume that playing more notes, or playing faster, means you are a better musician? Is it just that they don't understand music, and, in particular, the role of the bass in most songs?

Your last sentence answers the question.

 

[Honch]

What bugs me with musicians that when they ever hear something "Oh, you just can't play with feel, and this is no music..." they always make the assumption that that one who made that comment can't play fast. Makes the prejudice immediately that that person is a musician. It may well be so. Or more often...NOT! If you play music for musicians, a certain kind of fluency is required, but if you play just for a) yourself b) non-musician audience you can get away with less is more. However, they always makes the assumption that one who quips that line is a musician. I've heard numerous non-musicians give the same comments "oh....not playing anything by feel".

I think by and large this is a part child prodigy prowess, that plays JUST for impressing others, or validation from parents. That may stick to you still, while growing up. The fast thing.

EDIT: By most of my experience is that ordinary non musically inclined people, wants artists to SING with their instruments when soloing. That excludes pretty much scale practices at high velocity.