Why do Professional Baseball Players have batting practice?

[Fuzzbass]

I guess THESE guys just aren't as good as the members of your band are:

I guess your band is as good as Steely Dan because you rehearse regularly? (See what I did there?)

LBS-bass and Pocket Dave nailed it.




P.S. In the section you quoted I wasn't even talking about myself, I was talking about the best gigging musicians in my area. If you want them to rehearse, you will absolutely have to pay them, unless the gig pay is so high that it covers both rehearsal time and onstage time.

 

[hrodbert696]

Didn't read all nine pages, but basic reaction to the OP - it's apples and oranges, to an extent. Athletes are competing physically. A lot of their training time is weightlifting, flexibility, and endurance training, getting in shape so that they can perform demanding physical tasks (including crashing into each other, in some sports) without injuries. They don't just need to be strong enough to play the game, they need to play it better than the other team - run faster, push harder, sustain the exertion longer. Most of that is irrelevant to musicians. We aren't competing, and a successful performance isn't going to tear an ACL.

Of course, practice is still relevant for musicians. But there are different kinds of practice, and what's needed partly depends on what kind of performance you're preparing for. There's individual practice vs. band rehearsal. I can walk into any bar and jump in on Mustang Sally or Summer of 69 without needing to rehearse it with the band. If someone wants to cover Primus, on the other hand, that's another magnitude of rehearsal needed.

 

[51PRI]

SD's Y2K New Years Eve gig was probably a significantly higher paying gig than local-bar-band pay scale. Plus, their player scale probably extended to rehearsals.

I've got a friend who goes back out with a top-tier legacy act he's played with for 20 years next week and he's paid for pre-tour rehearsals, in addition to a yearly retainer and benefits.

Completely different story than local bar bands.

Even when I was in a local event band for 20 years, it was like getting paid to rehearse when the higher pay was factored in - and our own Y2K gig was no exception.

Oh, for heaven's sake.

I have said this before and I'll say it again. When you are prepping for a tour, you have daily rehearsals because you are being paid large sums of money by your adoring audience to produce and perform a high-level show. Everyone touring at this level will spend five to six weeks putting the show together and making sure it's as close to flawless as is possible.

You know what else happens during those weeks? THEY GET PAID.

You keep trying to compare apples with oranges in these threads. Few of us here are playing in bands of this caliber, and if you are, the calculus has changed dramatically from what regional touring bands do. Yes, big-ticket touring bands rehearse together and they do it because it's their JOB, and the audience expects a high degree of precision when spending triple digits on a ticket. And those triple digits is what pays for all those rehearsals.

So, when you are in that kind of band, you can recruit me in and you can pay me that and I'll gladly come to every rehearsal you schedule.

The irony here is that five weeks of rehearsal followed by a tour for that money is still not going to waste as much of my time as the weekly, unproductive piker band rehearsals that go on all year long which I'm frequently asked to do.

So, it's about the $$$? Sure, I get it.

 

[Pocket Dave]

So, it's about the $$$? Sure, I get it.

Absofrigginlutely it's about the $$$. And you're spot-on there by not saying it's ALL about it for the $$$, though an implication might be argued.

I've got no bone to pick with anyone who rehearses regularly without compensation; Often there's a genuine need due to experience level (and I'm not saying that's the case with you personally), and sometimes both pay scale and gig importance make it a given, no matter how experienced and comfortable the musicians are.

All I'm saying is I've been doing this and getting paid for it for over 45 years. I'm reasonably good at it, I show up on time, I'm prepared and I keep my mouth shut and do my job on regular band, sideman, sub & pickup gigs.

If you need me to start attending regular band rehearsals when I could be making more effective use of my time woodshedding for other paying gigs or attending said other paying gigs, your gigs need to be at a high enough pay scale to justify it. Either that or you need to pay me for rehearsal time (like many churches do in these parts). Otherwise, with all due respect, I'm not going to be a good fit for your band.

Peace

 

[51PRI]

I guess your band is as good as Steely Dan because you rehearse regularly?....

Yeah, we don't rehearse regularly, though. I would be happy to, however, IF progress was being made in a way that would truly make the band better and get us more and/or better gigs.

 

[LBS-bass]

So, it's about the $$$? Sure, I get it.

No, you don’t get it, at all.

It is about the level of finesse required to work at a certain level with a certain caliber of musician. Bringing Steely Dan into this conversation about bar bands is ridiculous on its surface. But if you think somehow these things are comparable, I’m going to point out how they are not.

And one of the ways is that musicians of this caliber don’t have to do unpaid rehearsals and play for tips. It is not about money. It is about being in the proper league that corresponds to your professional athlete comparison.

When pro ball players are being paid the way your bar band is being paid, we have a valid metaphor. But they aren’t.

 

[LBS-bass]

Yeah, we don't rehearse regularly, though. I would be happy to, however, IF progress was being made in a way that would truly make the band better and get us more and/or better gigs.

That’s the key. The amount of effort has to correspond with some level of reward.

 

[51PRI]

That’s the key. The amount of effort has to correspond with some level of reward.

I won't disagree, and the reward for ME is being in a band that I'm proud of because we're well rehearsed and tight and we don't just phone it in (which I'm not accusing anyone here of doing BTW). I think that being well rehearsed would also lead to more and better bookings and likely more money as well, and that's fine, too, but for me it's kinda secondary.

 

[friskinator]

At this point in my musical career, I will not practice. Ever. It’s generally a waste of my time. My cover band doesn’t rehearse, and we gig 3 or 4 times a year.

If I get a call about a sub gig and the BL wants to rehearse, I decline. If they aren’t cool with that, no hard feelings. I understand. But I’m still not doing it.

 

[JimmyM]

So, it's about the $$$? Sure, I get it.

Yep, although one could argue that if it was entirely about the money, you wouldn’t be playing music in the first place.

 

[LBS-bass]

Yep, although one could argue that if it was entirely about the money, you wouldn’t be playing music in the first place.

It's not entirely about the money, but the money is a bit of a barometer that shows you where you are in the overall heirarchy of things.

First call players for big-ticket touring bands are paid for their time because they are in demand. They have options and those who want them have to compete for them on that level.

Being able to say "I'll pay you $XXX per day to rehearse with us for five weeks" is part of what it takes to compete at that level and get them to sign on for your tour. So it's not about money, but in a way it is, because nobody at the bar band level is being offered those opportunities.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Yeah, we don't rehearse regularly, though. I would be happy to, however, IF progress was being made in a way that would truly make the band better and get us more and/or better gigs.

I play because I like to play. My jazzband only gigs a few times a year (tough to book jazz unless you want to play dinner music) so weget together weekly and play the music WE want to play, the way we want.

 

[SAlcott]

For the same reason that people who’ve been playing for 50+years warm up before the gig.

 

[hrodbert696]

Absofrigginlutely it's about the $$$. And you're spot-on there by not saying it's ALL about it for the $$$, though an implication might be argued.

I've got no bone to pick with anyone who rehearses regularly without compensation; Often there's a genuine need due to experience level (and I'm not saying that's the case with you personally), and sometimes both pay scale and gig importance make it a given, no matter how experienced and comfortable the musicians are.

All I'm saying is I've been doing this and getting paid for it for over 45 years. I'm reasonably good at it, I show up on time, I'm prepared and I keep my mouth shut and do my job on regular band, sideman, sub & pickup gigs.

If you need me to start attending regular band rehearsals when I could be making more effective use of my time woodshedding for other paying gigs or attending said other paying gigs, your gigs need to be at a high enough pay scale to justify it. Either that or you need to pay me for rehearsal time (like many churches do in these parts). Otherwise, with all due respect, I'm not going to be a good fit for your band.

Peace

It's not entirely about the money, but the money is a bit of a barometer that shows you where you are in the overall heirarchy of things.

This. It's a matter of priorities. I don't rely on gig pay to cover my bills, but what I've found is that treating music as a business and acting like a professional does wind up meaning better bands, better music, and better gigs. There are music projects I've done or have done where the music piece is more demanding and more rewarding, and I'm happy to rehearse more and get paid less because of the satisfaction of getting to play that music with those people. But I'm not going to rehearse weekly for months on end just to play Summer of 69 at someone's backyard party. That wouldn't be development, just redundancy, and I have higher priorities.

 

[Fuzzbass]

So, it's about the $$$? Sure, I get it.

Many of the top gigging musicians in my area are full time pros. Others have already explained how the money is relevant even for semi-pros/weekend warriors.


I'll share this: on a number of occasions I've worked with top local pros hired to sub on an emergency basis. If you've never experienced this, it's an epiphany. No rehearsal, of course: give them the list, they come in cold and play better than the member they are replacing. Even if your band isn't great at giving cues, no matter: it's like they have ESP.

Speaking of which: exactly one week ago, an all-original trio I perform with hired a top local drummer. We provided him with a YouTube playlist of the originals (many of which have stops, tempo changes, etc) weeks in advance. Sure enough, he came in and played the tunes better than we did: the guitarist/BL and myself are NOT top level (plus it was our first time playing together in 3 years).

 

[51PRI]

At this point in my musical career, I will not practice. Ever. It’s generally a waste of my time. My cover band doesn’t rehearse, and we gig 3 or 4 times a year.

If I get a call about a sub gig and the BL wants to rehearse, I decline. If they aren’t cool with that, no hard feelings. I understand. But I’m still not doing it.

So, you would PLAY with Steely Dan but you wouldn't rehearse for the gig? Gotcha!

 

[friskinator]

So, you would PLAY with Steely Dan but you wouldn't rehearse for the gig? Gotcha!

If I'm getting paid serious $ for a prestige gig/tour, fine. I'm all for it. But not for a one-off for some random local band.

 

[51PRI]

If I'm getting paid serious $ for a prestige gig/tour, fine. I'm all for it. But not for a one-off for some random local band.

So, once again, money is the determining factor.

 

[friskinator]

So, once again, money is the determining factor.

I mean, sure? In a hypothetical situation where an A list act calls me to sub, I’ll gladly rehearse if I’m being paid handsomely and there tickets being sold for the gigs. But I’m not going to slog through tunes in someone’s garage for a local gig.

Fortunately, neither of these scenarios apply to me.