Why do Professional Baseball Players have batting practice?

[12BitSlab]

I had a close friend who was the BL (vocals/keys/trumpet) of a full time band I played with.

His father was the Assistant Concert Master of one of the top symphonic orchestras in the U.S. His father practiced every day and the orchestra rehearsed four days per week during the “season” and two days per week during the off season. Additionally, he was an adjunct professor at one of the top music schools in the world. His performance as well as the orchestra’s performance was was always a grand slam (in keeping with the baseball analogy).

How much a group practices and rehearses is based on the goals of the group. In other words, how good do you want performances to be? If your performance exceeds your goals, then one should consider cutting back on rehearsals. If your performance comes up short of the goal, then there needs to be more effort spent on rehearsals.

 

[Killing Floor]

Let’s go Bravo

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Maybe bolt turning is something that one cannot improve on in the same way that a pianist can improve by daily practice, or a band can improve by tightening parts up on a regular basis?

You omitted the rest of my quote.

If some bands need to practice weekly for a gig six months from now, they should do so and have fun doing it. Bands that don't need to can do their thing and have fun too. There doesn't have to be one right way that fits every band in existence. You should do whatever your band need to do to put on a good show.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Pro musicians rehearse. They're just much more strategic, selective, and efficient about it. I'm not a pro, but I have relatives who are. The major classical ensembles rehearse. In fact rehearsal pay is written into their contracts.

It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

This.

They're paid rehearsals.

For our little $100-200/man gigs, unpaid rehearsals aren't sustainable for anyone who's honest about the value of what they do as a revenue source.

If you don't value what you do as a revenue source, different story.

 

[micguy]

I doubt in the major league forum there is six pages or more of batting practice discussion.

Of course not - they're discussing whether pro guitarists practice or not.

 

[dkelley]

This question would never ever come up on a trumpet forum. There is such thing as "game shape" in the pros and that's where performing trumpet pleyers (at any professional level) have to live...it's too physical to take 2 days off in a row. On trumpet forums (such as thrumpetherald.com) the discussion is, "I've platformed and not getting better so should I make myself take a day off to heal?" and the answer is YES, idiot, YES! I suppose when beginnig bass players get blisters it's the same thing.
(it's true Harry James took the whole summer off and spent one day to adjust back on tour. But he was a freek of nature.

true, but trumpet is entirely different from bass, as you noted. interesting bit of info though!

 

[dkelley]

When I was a professional violinist trying to get a position in a professional orchestra, just to get my foot in the door to start getting at position in the back of the section when they needed a huge orchestra, I was practicing violin intensively and methodically for 5+ hours per day. That's solo practice, outside of the groups I was playing in.

Music, when you are trying to make it your career, is extremely competitive, and the higher the standard of the group you are trying to join, the more intensive the work is that you must put into it and maintain just to remain where you are while gradually learning and improving tiny little details over months at a time.

So that much I can try and relate to the ball player analogy... as they are also competing for this elite position with good pay compared to small time leagues, and so forth.

 

[fdeck]

It's worth pointing out that both rehearsing and performing music can be done on a non-commercial basis. Even the pro's respect and engage in this. I know plenty of players for whom music is both a profession and a hobby. Often, the paid work pays the bills and the unpaid work satisfies other desires such as exploration and creation of music that has no commercial potential.

 

[Guitalia]

All the posts from pro musicians have been interesting, but the OP is in what sounds like, from his past threads, a typical past-their-prime cover band grinding it out on the bar circuit, when they can get gigs. The OP's commitment to working to make the band better, or at least decent, is higher than that of at least one or two of his fellow band members, which has led to frustration and to posting threads like this one.

As has been said a few times in this thread, different bands require different amounts of group rehearsal. The better and the more committed the band members are, the more they do their homework and come to rehearsals prepared. In cover bands composed of veteran musicians playing familiar songs, often very few full-band rehearsals, if any, are needed.

That's never going to happen with the band the OP is in. And, in my experience, thinking that such a band is going to improve as a consequence of increasing the number of rehearsals is a fantasy. The slackers are in the band because it's fun being in a band. Practicing and memorizing parts at home isn't fun. Therefore, nothing is going to improve with this bunch. He might be able to get them to verbally commit to doing the work, but they're not going to follow through.

Seriously. The OP has been dangling his feet in the water about leaving the band for quite a while. Just do it. Find guys who are willing to do the work.

Just don't think about recruiting the drummer in the hobby band I play with sometimes. I once asked him, having seen him yet again stumble his way through a song we'd attempted each week for a month, how exactly he went about working on songs. He said, brightly, "Oh, I don't work on them. The only way I can learn a song is to play it over and over with the band." He genuinely considered that a valid reply, rather than an excuse.

That was the last straw. Since we were just getting together to play for fun (but playing with a guy like that made it no fun), I figured out a new approach for our "rehearsals."

Instead of continuing to butcher the songs on the "list" (for sets we were never going to play in public), I suggested that we start using the drummer's several copies of Complete Beatles books (chords and lyrics; he had bought them when he thought he could put a Beatles tribute band together) and simply go through the books alphabetically, playing each song, one after the other.

So that's what we've been doing. Some sound surprisingly good, played for the first time. Everyone's happy, and we move on. A few sound pretty bad, but who cares? We laugh, and we move on. When the song comes out sounding good, the drummer always says, "That sounded great! Add it to the list!" I agree with him, nothing gets written down, and we move on.

 

[LBS-bass]

rehearsal pay is written into their contracts.

I think there are a lot of folks here who can't really imagine this. There's a tier in-between strict hobby band and orchestral level that considers themselves to be serious musicians but aren't working frequently or for an entity that has funds to pay them. That's where I suspect many of us dwell (I do).

I don't get paid for rehearsal. If someone offered me rehearsal pay and the opportunity was good, I would certainly be willing to do that. I'd probably have to give up some other things to accommodate that, but it'd be ok at that level.

Mostly, though, I'm in bands that rehearse a few times when they feel they need to, if an important show is coming up, or we're working on original material, or some other reason that makes that kind of sense. Weekly get-togethers just to go over the same material aren't usually on the table, but some sort of rehearsal usually is.

 

[JimmyM]

I don’t do much rehearsal but this band I just started a couple months ago has been rehearsing, albeit somewhat infrequently. But the music is tough and the field is highly competitive and pretty good pay so we can’t suck.

 

[Bass4Gsus]

Of course not - they're discussing whether pro guitarists practice or not.

That is funny.

What I was trying to say (here's another angle)

They do it, We talk about it, A TB tradition. And today I'm guilty as well.

 

[51PRI]

When I was a professional violinist trying to get a position in a professional orchestra, just to get my foot in the door to start getting at position in the back of the section when they needed a huge orchestra, I was practicing violin intensively and methodically for 5+ hours per day. That's solo practice, outside of the groups I was playing in.

Music, when you are trying to make it your career, is extremely competitive, and the higher the standard of the group you are trying to join, the more intensive the work is that you must put into it and maintain just to remain where you are while gradually learning and improving tiny little details over months at a time.

So that much I can try and relate to the ball player analogy... as they are also competing for this elite position with good pay compared to small time leagues, and so forth.

Yes, and there is competition at every level. Dad bands who are trying to book the corner bar are competing against bands that may, or may not, be better than them, or better at drawing a drinking crowd. To me that's where a band that is (at least) well rehearsed can gain an advantage over a group of players that just shows up and plays (not always but I have to think so percentage wise).

All the posts from pro musicians have been interesting, but the OP is in what sounds like, from his past threads, a typical past-their-prime cover band grinding it out on the bar circuit, when they can get gigs. The OP's commitment to working to make the band better, or at least decent, is higher than that of at least one or two of his fellow band members, which has led to frustration and to posting threads like this one.

As has been said a few times in this thread, different bands require different amounts of group rehearsal. The better and the more committed the band members are, the more they do their homework and come to rehearsals prepared. In cover bands composed of veteran musicians playing familiar songs, often very few full-band rehearsals, if any, are needed.

That's never going to happen with the band the OP is in. And, in my experience, thinking that such a band is going to improve as a consequence of increasing the number of rehearsals is a fantasy. The slackers are in the band because it's fun being in a band. Practicing and memorizing parts at home isn't fun. Therefore, nothing is going to improve with this bunch. He might be able to get them to verbally commit to doing the work, but they're not going to follow through.

Seriously. The OP has been dangling his feet in the water about leaving the band for quite a while. Just do it. Find guys who are willing to do the work.

Just don't think about recruiting the drummer in the hobby band I play with sometimes. I once asked him, having seen him yet again stumble his way through a song we'd attempted each week for a month, how exactly he went about working on songs. He said, brightly, "Oh, I don't work on them. The only way I can learn a song is to play it over and over with the band." He genuinely considered that a valid reply, rather than an excuse.

That was the last straw. Since we were just getting together to play for fun (but playing with a guy like that made it no fun), I figured out a new approach for our "rehearsals."

Instead of continuing to butcher the songs on the "list" (for sets we were never going to play in public), I suggested that we start using the drummer's several copies of Complete Beatles books (chords and lyrics; he had bought them when he thought he could put a Beatles tribute band together) and simply go through the books alphabetically, playing each song, one after the other.

So that's what we've been doing. Some sound surprisingly good, played for the first time. Everyone's happy, and we move on. A few sound pretty bad, but who cares? We laugh, and we move on. When the song comes out sounding good, the drummer always says, "That sounded great! Add it to the list!" I agree with him, nothing gets written down, and we move on.

This thread is not about the band I'm in or any particular scenario, just practice/rehearsal in general. But, since you brought it up, we have a lot of bookings this year, despite, or maybe because of, who knows?, what I see as possible areas for improvement.

I think there are a lot of folks here who can't really imagine this. There's a tier in-between strict hobby band and orchestral level that considers themselves to be serious musicians but aren't working frequently or for an entity that has funds to pay them. That's where I suspect many of us dwell (I do).

I don't get paid for rehearsal. If someone offered me rehearsal pay and the opportunity was good, I would certainly be willing to do that. I'd probably have to give up some other things to accommodate that, but it'd be ok at that level.

Mostly, though, I'm in bands that rehearse a few times when they feel they need to, if an important show is coming up, or we're working on original material, or some other reason that makes that kind of sense. Weekly get-togethers just to go over the same material aren't usually on the table, but some sort of rehearsal usually is.

I've never been in a scenario where I got paid for rehearsal. I think I would like it, though, not that it's about the money. Getting paid for rehearsal would show me a desire on the part of the person paying to get things right, and I would be for that.

 

[MoireBass]

So far in this thread this has been attributed to Chet Atkins, Itzhak Perlman, Anton Rubenstein, and someone's violin teacher.

Not only did they say they same thing, but they played a whole lot of the same notes too!

 

[MoireBass]

Does this mean bands need a coach? That's actually not a bad idea.

Actually it's a real good thing if a band has someone who can be objective (not parents or significant others) and is musically knowledgeable who can occasionally give them useable feedback.

 

[Fuzzbass]

The best bands in my area are made up of the best musicians in my area (usually pros) and do not rehearse. The musicians are so good they don't have to rehearse as a band.

I play in a half-dozen bands, most of whom never rehearse. My bandmates and I are definitely not top level, but we are as good or better than most other bands at our bar gig level who rehearse regularly. If there was a chance that we could break into the $2000 circuit then I suppose we would rehearse, but that ain't happening for many reasons, most of which have nothing to do with rehearsal.

Naturally, "rehearsal" means band practice. As individuals we all do whatever prep and practice it takes at home to get the tunes right at the gig, and we all have enough skill to cue each other on song endings and whatnot.

 

[51PRI]

The best bands in my area are made up of the best musicians in my area (usually pros) and do not rehearse. The musicians are so good they don't have to rehearse as a band.....

I guess THESE guys just aren't as good as the members of your band are:

 

[Pocket Dave]

I guess THESE guys just aren't as good as the members of your band are:

SD's Y2K New Years Eve gig was probably a significantly higher paying gig than local-bar-band pay scale. Plus, their player scale probably extended to rehearsals.

I've got a friend who goes back out with a top-tier legacy act he's played with for 20 years next week and he's paid for pre-tour rehearsals, in addition to a yearly retainer and benefits.

Completely different story than local bar bands.

Even when I was in a local event band for 20 years, it was like getting paid to rehearse when the higher pay was factored in - and our own Y2K gig was no exception.

 

[LBS-bass]

I guess THESE guys just aren't as good as the members of your band are:

Oh, for heaven's sake.

I have said this before and I'll say it again. When you are prepping for a tour, you have daily rehearsals because you are being paid large sums of money by your adoring audience to produce and perform a high-level show. Everyone touring at this level will spend five to six weeks putting the show together and making sure it's as close to flawless as is possible.

You know what else happens during those weeks? THEY GET PAID.

You keep trying to compare apples with oranges in these threads. Few of us here are playing in bands of this caliber, and if you are, the calculus has changed dramatically from what regional touring bands do. Yes, big-ticket touring bands rehearse together and they do it because it's their JOB, and the audience expects a high degree of precision when spending triple digits on a ticket. And those triple digits is what pays for all those rehearsals.

So, when you are in that kind of band, you can recruit me in and you can pay me that and I'll gladly come to every rehearsal you schedule.

The irony here is that five weeks of rehearsal followed by a tour for that money is still not going to waste as much of my time as the weekly, unproductive piker band rehearsals that go on all year long which I'm frequently asked to do.

 

[ryco]

'cuz it's fun?
Just my guess...