Why do the session legends all use P basses? (SBL Video Discussion)

[chadhargis]

This has gotten me wondering what all the lefty players who don't own (i.e. are unable to afford) P Basses

I've always wondered why instruments are "left or right" handed. When I first started playing, both of my hands were unable to play because I hadn't developed the skill. It's especially difficult when you're right handed, but playing a "right hand" instrument requires your left hand to have the most dexterity.

I think if I'd have started out playing a left hand bass, I'd have just learned it that way. It's like driving a right hand drive car. I learned to drive stick using my right hand in a left hand drive car. But when I drove my first right hand drive car, it took a few minutes to adjust and I was off to the races.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

This has gotten me wondering what all the lefty players who don't own (i.e. are unable to afford) P Basses would do were we to show up at a studio with whatever basses we have and then get requested to play a P (in some cases being provided with a righty model)... give up the job just because we don't have/are unable to play what they require...?

Some here have spoken about being able to approximate a P tone from a J neck pickup. I somewhat agree with that, as I've managed on mine so far... however, I'm also curious to know how well that (settling for a J neck in place of a P) would be tolerated by sound engineers?

If you're lefty, you will need to bring your own basses or learn to play on right handed basses. You'll find very few, if any lefty instruments in a studio. P basses are about the least expensive instruments out there. I would go so far to say that if you can't afford a P, you're probably not doing much studio work. And if you can't, or won't do it, they will call someone else next time.

 

[stingray69]

Here's a fun watch of isolated bass tracks - of P's and J's and more.

How your tone sits in a mix & suits the genre is a very important decision to consider before heading off to the studio to simply "lay a bass track".

 

[laklandplayer]

And he also played a Chopper Anderson Alien Audio bass.

Link Removed

Chopper's stuff is killer!

He also used the 1989 G&L L5000 that I gave him too, which had a P style pickup.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

And he also played a Chopper Anderson Alien Audio bass.

Link Removed

Chopper's stuff is killer!

Agreed completely!!

 

[Bass Viking]

Actually, more than any other instrument, I think you have better luck getting a better overall mix out of a bassist running sound. A generalization, yes, but bassists seem to have the overall picture in mind more than anyone else.

That makes sense. Bassists tend to be listeners.

 

[Zonked]

That makes sense. Bassists tend to be listeners.

Well that sounds nice, but definitely has not been my experience when doing sound.

I've had plenty of bassists insist on using "their tone" through the sound system even when it was not working for the mix in the PA system.

"their tone" might sound great to them through their rig on stage, but depending on the venue, out front through the PA is a different story.

Guitarists are not the only ones doing this.

My job as a sound guy is to make the the whole band (music), including bass, sound as good a possible for the audience.

 

[JimmyM]

Well that sounds nice, but definitely has not been my experience when doing sound.

I've had plenty of bassists insist on using "their tone" through the sound system even when it was not working for the mix in the PA system.

"their tone" might sound great to them through their rig on stage, but depending on the venue, out front through the PA is a different story.

Guitarists are not the only ones doing this.

My job as a sound guy is to make the the whole band (music), including bass, sound as good a possible for the audience.

Yes, but there is a line between sound engineer and producer, and when I hear a sound tech say that someone's on Stage Sound won't work in the PA, it makes me wonder if it truly doesn't work or the sound tech just doesn't like it. Lot of popular bass players with Unique Sounds used to get the shaft from sound techs because they didn't understand that the sound the bass player was getting was the sound that made the band unique. Yes and The Who immediately come to mind.

 

[chadhargis]

Here's an interesting video.

 

[Rib 13]

Recording today for a blues album...guess what bass I still didnt use?

 

[nostatic]

Recording today for a blues album...guess what bass I still didnt use?
View attachment 3273246

VH2 Behind the music:

 

[Rib 13]

LOL

 

[Elusive1]

If you're a pro you can afford a P-bass. ...

If you're lefty, you will need to bring your own basses or learn to play on right handed basses. You'll find very few, if any lefty instruments in a studio. P basses are about the least expensive instruments out there. I would go so far to say that if you can't afford a P, you're probably not doing much studio work. And if you can't, or won't do it, they will call someone else next time.

Thanks for the responses.

I do understand the need to bring one's own instruments to recording studios which I've been doing from the start, as am I aware of the fact that pros should definitely be able to afford anything they require. I suppose typing "unable to afford" in my first post was a little implausible, perhaps I should've phrased my question in the form of a possible scenario:

Suppose a studio that is about to commence recording has the usual bassist back out or otherwise become unavailable to record all of a sudden, and the sound engineers are not aware until the only available replacement arrives that he happens to be a left-handed player without a P Bass, upon which they tell him they require a P. In this instance, my question was whether he would be
A) required to play any available righty bass upside down (impractical but not impossible, I've seen it happen)
B) required to make a quick trip to the nearest music store to buy a lefty P Bass (time-consuming)
C) dismissed in favour of another right-handed player (also potentially time-consuming)
or
D) allowed to use the neck pickup of his own bass (as per the second half of my first post on J neck pickups)

Your responses have stated he should already have a P Bass in his possession (or at least be able to go out and get one at short notice, which would be option B). Point taken, it's got me considering a P Bass as my next possible instrument if only out of necessity... or if I can't find one, probably just have a P pickup installed on my Jazz.

 

[Elusive1]

I've always wondered why instruments are "left or right" handed. When I first started playing, both of my hands were unable to play because I hadn't developed the skill. It's especially difficult when you're right handed, but playing a "right hand" instrument requires your left hand to have the most dexterity.

I'm inclined to think that when it comes to stringed instruments of any sort, it is actually the right hand (I should type "dominant hand" since in my case it's my left) that is required to have the most dexterity. If you think about it, all the fretting hand does is press the strings on the required frets, which is basically muscle memory, so it is actually slightly possible to learn to fret with both hands, whereas the playing hand is required to develop the necessary precision and speed for plucking/picking/slapping/strumming/etc (depending on instrument and all), and that will generally fall to the dominant hand. If lefties played righty because "the fretting (usually left) hand requires the most dexterity" then all righties would be playing lefty by now.

 

[Rib 13]

-snip-.

Because this thread is many pages, I'll just recap some things I posted earlier. Keep in mind I am only going by my personal experience as a session player (which used to be a big part of my income many years ago). Everybody's experience will vary (as one poster earlier said he worked in a small studio where the guy did ask for a P-bass)

- Ive never had any producer, engineer, or client (or any combination of) tell me to use a P-bass. They will ask to make things darker, lighter, stringy, less stringy, make it purple, etc...When they are looking for a certain thing, they will usually cite an example. If they say "I'm looking for a tone like 'Promises, Promises' by Naked Eyes, a P-bass won't do that.
- You should be prepared with many basses . A P-bass tone is a "must have" on the pallette imo. But there are many tones on the pallette you should have at any given time. This is why I like to choose swiss army basses (basses with multiple pickups and configs). When I need a P-bass tone, I usually use my G&L ASAT for it, mid pickup soloed in Series mode. This bass can also get many other tones. Its the reason why there are switches and pickup selectors on it. If I was a lefty, I would consider that
- I find that string types are probably the biggest difference more than anything when achieving variances. I only use roundwounds live. However, In the studio, I have basses with rounds, flatwounds, and tapewounds
- Delivery consistency from your fingers/slap/pick/whatever is the biggest factor. Each and every note has to be perfect and even as posible. One of the reasons why VSTis have replaced actual players. The more consistent you are, the easier it is for an engineer to dial you in
- You will get asked to use a pick sometimes (this happened a lot in the 80s and 90s...less and less as time went on)
- "House bass" is kind of a misnomer. Most studios Ive been to don't have them. If they do, its because its the owners or engineers that just happens to be there. Of these, they were usually Stingrays. Ive always used my own basses anyway
- P-basses are wonderful instruments. I don't hate them. They have a certain mojo and - with some players - they just look cool on them. But the science behind them is simple. With a typical Stingray bass, there are many factors affecting its signature tone: a Parallel wired pickup n that 'Ray sweetspot and the proprietary nature of the MM preamp of which few third-party replacements can duplicate....A P-bass is much simpler: its a series wired pickup in that P-sweetspot -- Thats it ---Theres no magic unicorn poop involved in it. Many basses will do that. P-bass cultists always debate the simplicity of the P-bass as part of its magic -- I agree with that 100% - but by virtue of that simplicity, it makes it easy to duplicate
- Session legends in the 60s didnt have near as many bass choices as we do today
- TB is the only place I actually ever hear of this "P-bass or else" thing

EDIT: I am now in RN School, if that is any indication how much music for a living has changed for me. Most studio basses these days are programmed. Im fortunate to still get a few calls.

 

[frankie5string]

RN as in Registered Nurse? If so, that's amazing. We need more.

I agree with pretty much everything you laid down. Nothing is universal, but you do have to be able to sculpt your tone the way the boss wants it to be. In a few cases, it included changing what they see. Some people hear with their eyes.

All the best...

EDIT: I am now in RN School, if that is any indication how much music for a living has changed for me. Most studio basses these days are programmed. Im fortunate to still get a few calls.

 

[Elusive1]

Because this thread is many pages, I'll just recap some things I posted earlier. Keep in mind I am only going by my personal experience as a session player (which used to be a big part of my income many years ago). Everybody's experience will vary (as one poster earlier said he worked in a small studio where the guy did ask for a P-bass)

- Ive never had any producer, engineer, or client (or any combination of) tell me to use a P-bass. They will ask to make things darker, lighter, stringy, less stringy, make it purple, etc...More than anything, they usually dont say anything but, when they are looking for a certain thing, they will usually cite an example. If they say "I'm looking for a tone like 'Promises, Promises' by Naked Eyes, a P-bass won't do that.
- You should be prepared with many basses . A P-bass tone is a "must have" on the pallette imo. But there are many tones on the pallette you should have at any given time. This is why I like to choose swiss army basses (basses with multiple pickups and configs). When I need a P-bass tone, I usually use my G&L ASAT for it, mid pickup soloed in Series mode. This bass can also get many other tones. Its the reason why there are switches and pickup selectors on it. If I was a lefty, I would consider that
- I find that string types are probably the biggest difference more than anything when achieving variances. I only use roundwounds live. However, In the studio, I have basses with rounds, flatwounds, and tapewounds
- Delivery consistency from your fingers/slap/pick/whatever is the biggest factor. Each and every note has to be perfect and even as posible. One of the reasons why VSTis have replaced actual players. The more consistent you are, the easier it is for an engineer to dial you in
- You will get asked to use a pick sometimes (this happened a lot in the 80s and 90s...less and less as time went on)
- "House bass" is kind of a misnomer. Most studios Ive been to don't have them. If they do, its because its the owners or engineers that just happens to be there. Of these, they were usually Stingrays. Ive always used my own basses anyway
- P-basses are wonderful instruments. I don't hate them. They have a certain mojo and - with some players - they just look cool on them. But the science behind them is simple. With a typical Stingray bass, there are many factors affecting its signature tone: a Parallel wired pickup n that 'Ray sweetspot and the proprietary nature of the MM preamp of which few third-party replacements can duplicate....A P-bass is much simpler: its a series wired pickup in that P-sweetspot -- Thats it ---Theres no magic unicorn poop involved in it. Many basses will do that. P-bass cultists always debate the simplicity of the P-bass as part of its magic -- I agree with that 100% - but by virtue of that simplicity, it makes it easy to duplicate
- Session legends in the 60s didnt have near as many bass choices as we do today
- TB is the only place I actually ever hear of this "P-bass or else" thing

It's really nice to hear you've not had the misfortune of encountering any nasty sound engineers. I can only hope I'll be as fortunate as you in the future.

Of course, my question is purely hypothetical. As a lefty player with less studio experience than half the guys here, I was curious as to what the outcome/solution would be should a lefty sessionist with no P Bass happen to cross paths with a sound engineer demanding the usage of one. I've yet to actually see such an incident occur, let alone happen to me personally, and it so happened that the first few people who responded to my first post were overly biased in favour of the P Bass, to the point that it seemed almost a necessity to own one.

I agree with all your points, especially the third last one. The split-coil in that sweet spot is distinctive in its own right. But while I love the tones of both P and J neck pickups, I personally can't live without a J bridge pickup, plus I prefer the aesthetics of a J Bass anyway, so probably sometime in the future I might just get myself a J Bass with a PJ configuration or something. Anyway, regarding that bit "by virtue of that simplicity, it makes it easy to duplicate", I do think you're right. Once again it leads back to my first post, about whether sound engineers preferring the P tone would settle for a J neck pickup if the player was capable of duplicating the sound. Seems to be a really ambiguous question, though, seeing as no one has answered it yet

 

[Rib 13]

It's really nice to hear you've not had the misfortune of encountering any nasty sound engineers. I can only hope I'll be as fortunate as you in the future.

Of course, my question is purely hypothetical. As a lefty player with less studio experience than half the guys here, I was curious as to what the outcome/solution would be should a lefty sessionist with no P Bass happen to cross paths with a sound engineer demanding the usage of one. I've yet to actually see such an incident occur, let alone happen to me personally, and it so happened that the first few people who responded to my first post were overly biased in favour of the P Bass, to the point that it seemed almost a necessity to own one.

I agree with all your points, especially the third last one. The split-coil in that sweet spot is distinctive in its own right. But while I love the tones of both P and J neck pickups, I personally can't live without a J bridge pickup, plus I prefer the aesthetics of a J Bass anyway, so probably sometime in the future I might just get myself a J Bass with a PJ configuration or something. Anyway, regarding that bit "by virtue of that simplicity, it makes it easy to duplicate", I do think you're right. Once again it leads back to my first post, about whether sound engineers preferring the P tone would settle for a J neck pickup if the player was capable of duplicating the sound. Seems to be a really ambiguous question, though, seeing as no one has answered it yet

like a prefaced in my post: everybody's experience will be different than mine...a good bulk of mine may have been that I was already established at many places back in da day and folks know me.....so I never had to deal with any of that. I have done both union and non-union sessions and I have done work for nationals in the past.....your path may be different. As @frankie5string stated above, many folks do listen with their eyes so you may indeed encounter that. It may be that I am fortunate I never have (or that I just don't remember )....If I was a southpaw in your position looking for a Swiss Army bass for studio and I really felt that having something with Fender Precision on the headstock as being detrimental to my career, Id look into a Fender Precision Elite (or older Precison Deluxe....btw, the Jazz in the above pic is an American Deluxe).....PJ configuration, It will give a lot of Swiss Army flexibility, it will give a more-than-workable P when needed, active and passive flexibility, and have "Fender Precision" on it if I really believed that will factor for me. In your case, you also still have your Jazz to bring as well. Between both of those alone, I would have a fairly wide palette for most things........

RN as in Registered Nurse? If so, that's amazing. We need more.

yes and thanks. I graduate this year...late career change: it is the hardest thing I ever done but I am passing with decent grades and I really do enjoy it

 

[Rib 13]

. Once again it leads back to my first post, about whether sound engineers preferring the P tone would settle for a J neck pickup if the player was capable of duplicating the sound. Seems to be a really ambiguous question, though, seeing as no one has answered it yet

sorry, I forgot to address this...this is a long-standing debate on TB......its because both sides are right. Soloing the mid pickup on a typical passsive Jazz will get a P-voicing. The main problems are that it is usually way too thin and many J-basses will get unwanted noise or buzz when soloing pickups. Active Jazz basses can usually compensate for the thinness with some EQ shaping and certainly get more than inside the P ballpark but many of these also make unwanted noise. My American Deluxe is fairly quiet when soloing pickups for live work but not for studio. On the other hand, my Sire V7 is very quiet for studiowork when soloing pickups...Just goes to show that nametag and pricetag are things that never get captured to tape ..still, I dont advocate soloing J pickups as an adequate P replacement. The trick is that it needs to be a series-wired humbucker in that spot to really get the full body and warmth of the P-thing. My G&L ASAT does this perfectly...the simplest thing to do is have a bass with a P-pickup there (I have this, too)

 

[epoxo57]

IIRC, Neil Jason was one of the first guys to take a Jazz Bass into NY studios. He met some resistance, but simply used the front pickup!

I loved Neil Jason's work on KISS's Gene Simmons solo album. Great tone, especially growly on the opening song, "Radioactive". Saw an interview with him and he seemed to be a very humble, funny, and sincere guy who loves his craft.