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Why do the session legends all use P basses? (SBL Video Discussion)

#521
"Session legends"...if you just said a Fender bass, that would pretty much be true, but Joe Osborn really skews the curve with his massive output on that Jazz bass. Still, as has been pointed out, he never changed his flats and only used the neck p/u, so if we are talking about a "sound" he is practically a P-bass player. ;)

What was Lee Sklar known for? We also have Chuck Rainey, Bob Glaub, and has Duck Dunn been mentioned? Ray Pohlman isn't as well known as Carol Kaye, but he was also a Wrecking Crew bassist with a ton of credits and was another P-bass player.
 
#522
DirkP said:
But these session guys even had the impertinence to demand from James Jamerson - maybe the greatest P-bass player of all times - to play roundwounds and slap. But real artists like Jamerson don't follow these advices. It is as if some idiot would dictate which colors and brushes Picasso should use.
This kind of session-bass-players should all have been replaced with software long ago:)
Click to expand...
Nobody is owed a living. If producers wanted a different vibe than the Jamerson vibe and didn't hire him because he refused to change, then that's not their fault.
 
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#525
DirkP said:
But these session guys even had the impertinence to demand from James Jamerson - maybe the greatest P-bass player of all times - to play roundwounds and slap. But real artists like Jamerson don't follow these advices. It is as if some idiot would dictate which colors and brushes Picasso should use.
This kind of session-bass-players should all have been replaced with software long ago:)
Click to expand...

They were trying to help him. The music was changing, but he wasn't. His job was to give the producer what they wanted. He didn't. Add in his alcohol issues, and I understand why Motown didn't take him to California.
 
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#526
consectaneus said:
"Session legends"...if you just said a Fender bass, that would pretty much be true, but Joe Osborn really skews the curve with his massive output on that Jazz bass. Still, as has been pointed out, he never changed his flats and only used the neck p/u, so if we are talking about a "sound" he is practically a P-bass player. ;)

What was Lee Sklar known for? We also have Chuck Rainey, Bob Glaub, and has Duck Dunn been mentioned? Ray Pohlman isn't as well known as Carol Kaye, but he was also a Wrecking Crew bassist with a ton of credits and was another P-bass player.
Click to expand...

Ray Pohlman was my dear friend and mentor in LA. He gave me my first network TV show by letting me sub for him on Name That Tune. Ray got me started in the studios and referred me whenever he was already booked. He was a brilliant inventor, Ray invented the first electronic metronome, the MEtone and the Prism Stereo process for mastering records. Ray was a great guy, he smoked shermans and drove one of the first Honda cars sold in LA. I remember being terrified riding with him on the LA freeways in that car. He was an excellent guitarist and singer too. He sang on tons of jingles in LA and was Peggy Lee’s guitar player for a time and the guitar player in the juggernaut big band. He was the musical director on the Shindig tv show and produced the Association as well as some of the 5th dimension records. He was a giant in the business and so little is known or mentioned about him. He was the first recording Fender bass player in LA. He used a 57 maple neck P bass with labella flats and he kept a c clamp in the case if he needed to get rid of a dead spot. I played that bass many times and it was magic. I really miss him.
 
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#529
buldog5151bass said:
They were trying to help him. The music was changing, but he wasn't. His job was to give the producer what they wanted. He didn't. Add in his alcohol issues, and I understand why Motown didn't take him to California.
Click to expand...
Motown DID take him to California...or rather, they left and he went with them. And he played on a butt-ton of Motown records from that era.

Rick Suchow - NYC Bassist / Writer - Bass
 
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#531
laklandplayer said:
Ray Pohlman ... produced the Association as well as some of the 5th dimension records.
Click to expand...

I know Ray arranged for the Association and other groups, but I'm not aware of him actually being a hit record producer. The classic '60s/early '70s albums by the 5th Dimension were produced by Bones Howe, an amazing producer and engineer whose records always had a crystal clarity of sound not often found in '60s pop albums. (Bones also produced two of the Association's best albums, Insight Out and Birthday, including their hits "Windy", "Never My Love", and "Everything That Touches You".) Ray did produce a couple of later Association albums, but that was after they'd run out of hits.

The AllMusic Guide's list of Ray's credits shows him as mostly a bass player, guitarist, and arranger. This isn't to diminish his contributions at all, just to characterize them properly. He was a major part of the "Wrecking Crew" community of '60s LA session players.
 
#532
DirkP said:
But these session guys even had the impertinence to demand from James Jamerson - maybe the greatest P-bass player of all times - to play roundwounds and slap. But real artists like Jamerson don't follow these advices. It is as if some idiot would dictate which colors and brushes Picasso should use.
This kind of session-bass-players should all have been replaced with software long ago:)
Click to expand...
Jameson was an artist, but not THE ARTIST.
Picasso didn’t paint houses for a living. If you’re a lowly session player, you follow the trends or miss out.
A great skill is to see what’s coming, or at least stay “up to date”. I’m trying to, I hope! I make my living playing. I ain’t getting younger!
 
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#533
Craig4003 said:
I know Ray arranged for the Association and other groups, but I'm not aware of him actually being a hit record producer. The classic '60s/early '70s albums by the 5th Dimension were produced by Bones Howe, an amazing producer and engineer whose records always had a crystal clarity of sound not often found in '60s pop albums. (Bones also produced two of the Association's best albums, Insight Out and Birthday, including their hits "Windy", "Never My Love", and "Everything That Touches You".) Ray did produce a couple of later Association albums, but that was after they'd run out of hits.

The AllMusic Guide's list of Ray's credits shows him as mostly a bass player, guitarist, and arranger. This isn't to diminish his contributions at all, just to characterize them properly. He was a major part of the "Wrecking Crew" community of '60s LA session players.
Click to expand...
Ray produced stone soul picnic and a couple of others. Bones may have had the record credit, but Ray did the actual work.
 
#534
JimmyM said:
Motown DID take him to California...or rather, they left and he went with them. And he played on a butt-ton of Motown records from that era.

Rick Suchow - NYC Bassist / Writer - Bass
Click to expand...

In Detroit, he was the number one bassist. From everything I've read, that was no so in California. He still did some playing out there, when some artists with the clout insisted, but certainly not as much (suddenly he had time to moonlight).
 
#536
I have heard Sean talk about this in other clips before, and I find that he comes across in very professional and educated manner. I am not nearly in the same class as Sean is, but I make my living as a full time player, and I have had similar experiences in the studio. I have never had anyone tell me anything like "you aren't playing that bass on this session!", however I have had a few times in the past experienced the "that was cool, but the sound isn't exactly working in this track". I have always always owned a p-bass since, and now I pretty much play nothing but. It doesn't have to be Fender. I am not going to say at all that they will be for everyone, because there are some GREAT basses out there that sound terrific in a mix. But the way a P-Bass sounds, and the way the neck feels to me is perfect.
 
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#538
AngelCrusher said:
Since I was a hired gun for way too long, I can tell you that the guys you named are the 1% of players. (Obvious statement - apologies in advance)There are tons of guys who you may not know by name that do tours and sessions all over the globe and they don’t have a signature sound or instrument. That makes up the majority of guys who play for a living. It’s not glamorous.

The best way to be a hired gun is to be a chameleon. Walk into any band room or studio and make it feel like the producer and band imagined the bassline in their heads. That’s the secret. If you can do that, you are going to get gigs. This is why so many guys who want to jump into that world carry a Pbass. It may be their go to bass or the backup. Regardless, they have one. It only makes sense to show up prepared.

I see “fusion” guys and weekend warriors who will always be like “thats not my sound”..etc. Cool, you aren’t trying to do this for a living and I respect that. But one thing you will never hear from a hired gun is “that’s not my sound”. Those words are just not uttered by guys who get label gigs. The other thing you won’t see is a guy trying to fit “his licks” into a record that he did not write. So if you are married to your sound and licks, don’t worry about the Pbass discussion. It’s not for you and that is ok. Hurley is a hired gun and he knows how to stay employed. That’s it. How many people know who this guy is? Probably like 15% of bassists and that’s it. He’s not even as “famous” as Will Lee or Pino ..etc. I doubt he cares. All that matters to him is that Producers/Muscians/Engineers and A&R guys know him and talk to him all the time. That’s his #1 concern, and why his opinion is valid if you want to be in his line of work.
Click to expand...

This pretty much sums it up.
 
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#539
Pro tip? Ask the engineer/ producer what they want for the gig in advance. being a professional is about aligning expectations with the person who hired you. respecting the song, the artist, and the people in the room.
for example if you get called to a chamber orchestra gig and you are the fourth trumpet with 3 other bach trumpet players, dont bring your custom trumpet. you won't blend with them. You could call in advance and let them know, "hey I dont have a bach trumpet, but I can make my custom trumpet sound like a bach, you may just need to tweak my microphone a bit." you have now created a 'to-do' list for the person who hired you. and maybe they are okay with that. but more likely they will say, "sorry we decided to go with someone else." Someday they might say, "all good, we called you for YOUR sound" .
Or screw all this and just go make some rock-n-roll.
this is a fun thread!
 

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