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Why do the session legends all use P basses? (SBL Video Discussion)

do they?

I bring many basses (strung with different string types) and choose the one I feel accordingly....very sparingly have I ever been asked to use a particular bass. The P-tone is one of many tones on the pallette for any given session (of which I use the mid pickup in Series mode on my G&L ASAT for P-tone)......This mantra of all session guys use P-basses and engineers/producers telling them to do so is largely a myth to me --- and one that I usually only hear get circulated here on TB........ymmv

Not a myth in my case. During my admittedly brief career as a studio player, if I walked in with a Precision there was no reaction, no discussion. If I came in with anything else, there was at minimum a bit of stink-eye and at most a request that I use something else. Note: With the exception of Echo Mountain in Asheville, none of these were exactly first-rank studios. Small-time is small-time, you know? I expect some of these engineers were simply working on reflex: "Precision we know; anything we don't know, we don't want."
 
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Yeah you're right. I mean, Sean's only been working with major artists since he was 16, and he's only played on a couple multi-platinum records, and co-writing a number one single? What's that. Oh, and the ability to transcribe solos? Anyone can do that (especially on this forum). And what, only one signature artist model bass? Yeah we shouldn't listen to his advice.

I’m not sure I said what you think I said. Or maybe I just don’t understand what you are saying.
 
Part of the problem is our collective understanding of what constitutes a "session player". I'm guilty of taking some liberties with that term in my earlier post. Really, to me a session player is someone who is hired to do a recording session. They may end up as part of a tour (Leland Sklar comes to mind), or they may not play much outside of the studio. In either case they are recording bassists playing on other folks' recordings. Perhaps my definition is too broad and should only included those that make a living recording for other folk as a "hired gun".

To be fair, some of those I mentioned are not usually considered to be session players, even though they have recorded for other folks' projects. And even though Will Lee is famous for his work on Letterman's show playing a Jazz-style bass, he plays many different instruments, and has recorded with all kinds. Joe Osborne, on the other hand is famous for his recorded sound almost exclusively on a Fender Jazz.

But this thread is getting a lot of traction. Puzzles me though - I have heard of recording engineers requiring the use of a P-bass, but I have never encountered that, nor have any of my recording friends. Maybe it's a regional thing?

Most of the below is not addressed towards your post, but I keep seeing people name famous session guys in here as examples of not using a Pbass and yours was the last post that did it, so here we are:

Since I was a hired gun for way too long, I can tell you that the guys you named are the 1% of players. (Obvious statement - apologies in advance)There are tons of guys who you may not know by name that do tours and sessions all over the globe and they don’t have a signature sound or instrument. That makes up the majority of guys who play for a living. It’s not glamorous.

The best way to be a hired gun is to be a chameleon. Walk into any band room or studio and make it feel like the producer and band imagined the bassline in their heads. That’s the secret. If you can do that, you are going to get gigs. This is why so many guys who want to jump into that world carry a Pbass. It may be their go to bass or the backup. Regardless, they have one. It only makes sense to show up prepared.

I see “fusion” guys and weekend warriors who will always be like “thats not my sound”..etc. Cool, you aren’t trying to do this for a living and I respect that. But one thing you will never hear from a hired gun is “that’s not my sound”. Those words are just not uttered by guys who get label gigs. The other thing you won’t see is a guy trying to fit “his licks” into a record that he did not write. So if you are married to your sound and licks, don’t worry about the Pbass discussion. It’s not for you and that is ok. Hurley is a hired gun and he knows how to stay employed. That’s it. How many people know who this guy is? Probably like 15% of bassists and that’s it. He’s not even as “famous” as Will Lee or Pino ..etc. I doubt he cares. All that matters to him is that Producers/Muscians/Engineers and A&R guys know him and talk to him all the time. That’s his #1 concern, and why his opinion is valid if you want to be in his line of work.
 
I imagine that if it's your album that's being recorded, the engineer will work towards achieving any sound you ask for on whatever type of bass you play. If you're playing bass on someone else's album, they probably want your bass to fit into the mix with guitars, vocalists, keyboards, brass or whatever else is being played. The four string P bass seems to carve a nice distinct sonic niche most of the time and that's probably desirable for recording engineers, who want every instrument to be heard, yet merge together harmoniously.
 
A Pbass does not possess some magical sonic qualities. It is merely what everyone is accustomed to hearing, and the gear in most studios will be easily tweaked to accommodate that sound because the engineers instantly know exactly what to do with those knobs when they're getting signal from a P.

That it sounds good most of the time is a function of everyone already knowing how to make it sound good, not the other way around :)
 
Wanted to discuss this video w/you guys.


I can relate to the problems with the active 5 string that the engineers seemed to want to fix. As it was essentially the issues I was experiencing that led to me trading/selling said bass for a P Bass.


I actually saw this video the day before you posted it and much of what was in that video resonated so much with my experience that I had to see the rest of the interview. As this post clearly indicates, this video is edited for the most dramatic effect. It worked!! I have more than one P, Jazz, modern, or whatever bass. Still, nothing cuts through like my 50s P with flats.

Thanks for sharing as I have really enjoyed the dichotomy on display here.
 
Great post, and mostly true although I historically find that Stingrays are greatly preferred over the years... but even with Bruce Swedein I had tracked with a Jazz in the booth and occasionally in the great room after everything else has been laid <shrug>....I only quoted the above because its the only thing I disagree with (to a point)...I show up usually with 3 - 5 instruments, all with different string types and pickup locations because part of it is being ready for any situation and having a wide pallette to select from.....If you dont play with a pick, have some in your pocket because that will get asked quite a bit....... Im capable of getting a P-Sound with flats if needed.....oddly enough, my goofy little 1970 Sekova EB3 copy with flats I bought for 60 bucks has been getting a lot of time lately...this just happened at a different facility again last week....I would never use this thing live, but when I plug it in and ask "How's this?", both clients and studio owners light up over it <another shrug>

Hi, thanks. Most of my studio experience such as it was occurred in the late 60's and especially during the the 70's era. By the time the EB Stingrays started to catch on the sound company had gotten totally out of hand and I wasn't playing professionally anymore. I am not a musical savant like so many of the artists I knew from that era.

I notice there seems to be way more variation in tonality from the bass on the more modern recordings than there used to be. It's pretty obvious that engineers have way more latitude regarding what they can do with electric bass now than they used to, and, of course, the state of the art has advanced mightily since the Quad 8 days. Under the circumstances, it makes total sense that you would want to show up for a session with several basses, string combinations, etc. I'm not surprised, though, that producers still ask for a pick. For recording the bass, it seems to provide a more well defined attack, and makes the strings ring with a certain clarity I don't hear using the fingers. Good grief, I hope I don't regret saying that here on TB! I enjoy playing finger style more than with the pick. But...

You definitely have my respect and admiration for playing sessions in the present era. I would love to do sessions again. I am enjoying perfecting my reading and NNS skills though. It keeps my mind occupied, holds off the dementia (some would argue that point!) and keeps me out of trouble here in sin city. They don't call Las Vegas sin city for nothing! At this point, though, i'm just to cheap for all that high priced fun. Instead, I just acquired an Apollo Twin Mk.II Quad for my iMac which is totally loaded for bear, so I should have something online by the middle of next year.

Never recorded bass in a control room through big studio monitors. The control rooms at Wally Heider's studio B and Pacific Recording were pretty small, actually. Never was at the Automatt. The Music Annex had a pretty good sized master control room, but I never thought to play anything in there. I don't remember the names of several other studios. It's all kind of a blur, actually. I just stayed out of the booth and concentrated on my playing at the sessions. Which is probably a good thing, if you get my drift. Cheers brother!
 
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I was in a studio for a mix/mastering session just over a week ago. The track was an original a friend had written and all tracks were recorded in my little home studio. The plan was to do the recording “for free” (at my place) and then he would pay to have a pro mix and master it. The original tracks were acoustic guitar, two electric guitars, drums , vocals and bass guitar. I used my Hofner CT 500/1. It sounded pretty good to both of us. A few days before going into the studio I decided to do a second bass track using my fender Jbass. I did this out of paranoia because I didn’t want the engineer to give me any crap about not being able to get a good sound with the Hofner. So we brought both bass tracks to the studio.

After spending a brief period tweaking both tracks it was very clear that the fender just sat in the mix really well. In defense of Hofner, the engineer was clearly not interested in spending a lot of time trying to make either bass sound great - we were on a budget and I was not paying for the session so I just went with the flow. He dialed in the fender very quickly and we were very happy with the way it turned out.

This episode means nothing but it does reinforce that some (at least one) engineers prefer working with a known entity- in this case a Jbass. Btw, the engineer was also a bass player and there was a 1970s PBass in the control room.
 
how is asheville these days? i used to love gigging there way back when
I left in 2014. I was back to visit this past summer, and it was kinda strange. As my friend Tracy says "It's all whored out now." Friday night downtown is crowded with bachelorette parties, similar to the way Nashville is now. 20 drunk young ladies wearing penis hats. The big clubs--Orange Peel, Grey Eagle--seem to be doing just fine. Jack Of The Wood and Tressa's are still going strong. When I lived there, 90% of my gigs were in South Carolina: Greenville, Greer, and Spartanburg. And Knoxville every once in a while. It was an R&B band, and Asheville is into Americana in a big way.
 
I don't think it's a "P Bass or else" in most commercial studios. One of my best friends and bass instructor is a top Nashville session bassist. He has one P Bass, a Japanese '57 reissue. He uses it on a lot of sessions, but he also frequently records with his Sadowsky 5 and Tyler 5.

I'm not a Nashville session player, but I have done session work in my field, southern gospel music, and a modern 5 string is used for those at least 50% of the time. And I've seen more jazz basses played on SG sessions than Precisions. In that style of music we are still in the bright & tight sound. That's the sound that usually works for SG songs. And a 5 string is a must on many sessions.

I have been reading here in TB about the necessity of 5 strings in modern country, gospel and PW music. How long ago this did start. What motivated the need for low notes. Because of the Hammond B3??? This is news to me. I subbed for a country band bassist a while back 2 gigs, they did not require a 5 string. Also in a small church, they asked me to play and no 5 string was aks but his was 6 years ago.
 
I have been reading here in TB about the necessity of 5 strings in modern country, gospel and PW music. How long ago this did start. What motivated the need for low notes. Because of the Hammond B3??? This is news to me. I subbed for a country band bassist a while back 2 gigs, they did not require a 5 string. Also in a small church, they asked me to play and no 5 string was aks but his was 6 years ago.

I can only speak to modern country, which is not the same as classic country. It's rock with fiddles, and a lot of detuned stuff. Jason Aldean does a lot with it. Not my cuppa to listen to, but people like it.
 
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I once heard an engineer say he likes producers who will give direction, not micro-manage, as in "can you make it sound more open", not "give me 3 dB more on this channel". In turn, this lets him, as engineer, deliver a better end result.

Same goes for me on bass. I don't play sessions but play in new situations a lot, so also have to get a lot right quickly. Can you make it more "round", or "fat", or "less busy" or "well-defined"... these are musical conversation and drive creativity. "You have the wrong bass..." yawn. It happened to me once (I had a vintage Fender in my hands) and just made me realize I was not talking to a creative person.
 
thanks (those are old blast from the past tracks for me)....and, if you were the client, producer, or whoever in the chain that said "Its not P enough", I would try something else....If nothing I had worked, at that point I would be thinking that this person just wants me to play something that says 'Fender Precision' on it, and Id call a few of my friends to see if they could bring one over to me (if Im tracking local).....Fortunately, its never come down to that: the G&L ASAT with mid pickup soloed in Series has provided satisfactory P-tone for me when needed since 1995 :D

I think what you laid down there sounded pretty dang good regardless.
 
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Reality check, do they even track live bass in pop music that is selling today/ What percentage would that be?. My most recorded bass is a P type. It has a Bartolini P and Q control instead of a tone control. I also had a Jazz type and as long as everything is wide open no engineer ever complained. Pino> Did he not use EB MM basses?
 
The recording industry has always been driven by money and they were never going to spend an extra dime making your favorite bass sound good when they could get someone in to play a generic bass line that needed no extra processing to fit in the mix.

What about Marcus Miller? Almost every song he writes has 4 string bass as the lead instrument. I bet they spend at least 2 or 3 dimes on his tone.
 
What about Marcus Miller? Almost every song he writes has 4 string bass as the lead instrument. I bet they spend at least 2 or 3 dimes on his tone.

Marcus is a known artist that sells lots of units, tickets, and merchandise and hosts sold-out Jazz cruises with his own name. Virtually one of a kind, and he's an exception that proves the rule.

That said, he was a session guy for many years and is no stranger to being hustled in and out of studios in the name of economics - he was very much a working stiff in that regard early in his career in NYC. One of the biggest reasons he got the preamp in his Jazz that gives him his famous sound is because he wanted at least a little control in recording sessions when engineers couldn't be bothered with spending time on his sound.
 
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