This is probably spot on, and very insightful, especially coming from a guy that plays a bass with far too many strings.........
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Why do we bother arguing online
- Thread starter Let It Fall
- Start date
This is probably spot on, and very insightful, especially coming from a guy that plays a bass with far too many strings.........
To the OP's question of "why do we argue?" - because sometimes people post things that we really don't agree with and feel that posing an alternate point of view is worth while.
But I'll also pose that there is a distinct difference between 'arguing' and 'debating'. Yes, frequently these forum threads are filled with nothing but arguing - and those tend to get shut down pretty handily when it's clear that there's nothing of value to be gained.
Less frequently there are threads where there is reasoned debate with a genuine respect for differing opinions. Those threads are immensely useful and tend to be good examples of the fact that people can often disagree but agree to discuss their differing points of view in a civilized fashion.
Sometimes someone asks a question that does have a provable and quantifiable answer, but the answers they are getting are simply wrong and when someone else posts a rebuttal, they either do so in a condescending way that is palpable which sends the discussion south OR the person who posted the erroneous info takes a perfectly valid correction as an insult.
The difference between arguing and debating tends to be measured by the degrees of maturity of those participating. Being able to take or give an opposing point without also taking or giving it offensively is a skill.
But I'll also pose that there is a distinct difference between 'arguing' and 'debating'. Yes, frequently these forum threads are filled with nothing but arguing - and those tend to get shut down pretty handily when it's clear that there's nothing of value to be gained.
Less frequently there are threads where there is reasoned debate with a genuine respect for differing opinions. Those threads are immensely useful and tend to be good examples of the fact that people can often disagree but agree to discuss their differing points of view in a civilized fashion.
Sometimes someone asks a question that does have a provable and quantifiable answer, but the answers they are getting are simply wrong and when someone else posts a rebuttal, they either do so in a condescending way that is palpable which sends the discussion south OR the person who posted the erroneous info takes a perfectly valid correction as an insult.
The difference between arguing and debating tends to be measured by the degrees of maturity of those participating. Being able to take or give an opposing point without also taking or giving it offensively is a skill.
The difference, of course, is that on the internet you can always log off and come back tomorrow to continue the debate - until FOREVER!
And that is why we have mods....
+1 And present their side without straying from the initial question. Many of the arguments I see on this forum, usually don't follow a logical/valid form. They wonder around and loose touch with the initial question.
There's a wealth of knowledge and experiences out there that you can either see as a challenge/threat to your opinion/ego or a way to gain more knowledge and perspective about the subject at hand. I try to choose the latter.. That doesn't mean I'll definitely change my mind but I'll actually think about it in more detail and that may make me more open to another perspective.. Case in point, the suicide thread yesterday..
Ive changed my opinion on a few things or have reinforced my opinion on others due directly to some of the discourse on TBOT.
I try not to be quite so argumentative any more. 'Arguing' doesnt do much good, really. I prefer to discuss things in which some people may not have the same perspective as myself. Even if they dont change my perspective it goes a long way to help me understand where another is coming from and why they hold the opinion they do. Thats a positive thing.
Heh, I actually do this sometimes as well. I found that one of the best ways to learn about a topic is to defend the side you don't agree with. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work out for me
Yeah, well I think its harder to defend a position one doesnt agree with, so its not always going to be an easy task.
Bingo! Ive got to dig it up, but I made a post in another thread, I think in Misc, about how internet posting is all about the ego.
here it is, from 'THings Ive Learned on Talkbass': So what the OP is saying is that he's learned that this web forum, like any other, is all EGO, EGO, EGO hidden behind the anonynimity of the world wide web.
I think the difference lies in the distinction between arguing and debate. Someone who wants to argue usually has an opinion they want to state and arent interested in the alternative. A person who truly wants to explore an issue HAS to have a grip on both sides of an issue before they can find the answer that often lies somewhere between the 2 sides. Its a common practice in debate classes to have people with different viewpoints switch sides and argue for the viewpoint that is opposite of their own. This forces you to try to understand things from a different perspective and can be very enlightening. While a good number of arguments on TB are just that, arguments, there are also many interesting debates that leave me with a better understanding of the issue than I had going in.
we do it because we think it makes a difference. Same can be said of a verbal argument though, no ideas get changed, because most the time people arn't listening and are just spouting their side or out to discredit their opponents arguement. completly pointless.
I mainly do it to to gain more knowledge and perspective about the subject at hand or to see if my opinion holds up.
I have changed my opinion do to internet debate on a subject or two do to exposure of ideas/perspectives that I may never have encountered. (Example: views of persons from other cultures and countries, etc.)
Sometimes I've argued to take up for people that I see are being bullied by someone. For example, I had an epic 4 year argument with an individual whom, in my opinion, was attempting to bully a small group (long story). I stuck to it, despite a lawsuit (that was thrown out), threats of further lawsuits, and standard slander/libel. In this situation the individual, the group and myself were all known to each other, so no anonymity to hide behind. I saw it as an injustice that I was not going to let this person get away with.
It ended with him expelled from the group and pretty much any individual he spoke with regarding that issue telling him to shut up and no one wanted to hear it. So he faded away into obscurity. He burned a lot of bridges and lost a lot of friends and respect from people.
No, he never changed his mind, but I made several friends, had great experience with the group. Experience that helped me get a job when I got laid off (lay off was unrelated).
Would I go through it again? Yeah, probably.
Of course, sometimes I just do it for fun.
I have changed my opinion do to internet debate on a subject or two do to exposure of ideas/perspectives that I may never have encountered. (Example: views of persons from other cultures and countries, etc.)
Sometimes I've argued to take up for people that I see are being bullied by someone. For example, I had an epic 4 year argument with an individual whom, in my opinion, was attempting to bully a small group (long story). I stuck to it, despite a lawsuit (that was thrown out), threats of further lawsuits, and standard slander/libel. In this situation the individual, the group and myself were all known to each other, so no anonymity to hide behind. I saw it as an injustice that I was not going to let this person get away with.
It ended with him expelled from the group and pretty much any individual he spoke with regarding that issue telling him to shut up and no one wanted to hear it. So he faded away into obscurity. He burned a lot of bridges and lost a lot of friends and respect from people.
No, he never changed his mind, but I made several friends, had great experience with the group. Experience that helped me get a job when I got laid off (lay off was unrelated).
Would I go through it again? Yeah, probably.
Of course, sometimes I just do it for fun.
I mainly do it to to gain more knowledge and perspective about the subject at hand or to see if my opinion holds up.
I have changed my opinion do to internet debate on a subject or two do to exposure of ideas/perspectives that I may never have encountered. (Example: views of persons from other cultures and countries, etc.)
Sometimes I've argued to take up for people that I see are being bullied by someone. For example, I had an epic 4 year argument with an individual whom, in my opinion, was attempting to bully a small group (long story). I stuck to it, despite a lawsuit (that was thrown out), threats of further lawsuits, and standard slander/libel. In this situation the individual, the group and myself were all known to each other, so no anonymity to hide behind. I saw it as an injustice that I was not going to let this person get away with.
It ended with him expelled from the group and pretty much any individual he spoke with regarding that issue telling him to shut up and no one wanted to hear it. So he faded away into obscurity. He burned a lot of bridges and lost a lot of friends and respect from people.
No, he never changed his mind, but I made several friends, had great experience with the group. Experience that helped me get a job when I got laid off (lay off was unrelated).
Would I go through it again? Yeah, probably.
Of course, sometimes I just do it for fun.
I will give you 100 TB credits for breaking down that entire situation in a new thread so we can argue about it. Deal?
Without getting into specifics, some here have changed my opinion(s). On the good side, I've been able to see some people's viewpoints through their vantage point, and that's opened up my eyes a bit. On the bad side, well.. I can't go there because I'm not proud of it.
I like to read other's opinions. It gives me a broader view on the world. Sometimes they soften my opinion. Some opinions do upset me. In those cases I try not to respond. Even if I totally disagree, it at least makes me see the other side of the truth.
Arguing:
1. Seeing who can throw a rock the furthest, or win a p***ing match. Your insecurity is obvious!
2. Starting meaningless attacks, or having the ridiculous idea that one is right all-the-time.
3. Not respecting that others have as much right to an opinion, and respecting that idea.
4. Bringing your bad mood, or attitude and making others on the forum suffer for it.
5. Hurling insults, or rude comments for sport (as if they would appreciate it).
6. Flaming others to see how fast you can get a thread off-topic.
Oops, can't think of anymore at the moment.
Great topic!
1. Seeing who can throw a rock the furthest, or win a p***ing match. Your insecurity is obvious!
2. Starting meaningless attacks, or having the ridiculous idea that one is right all-the-time.
3. Not respecting that others have as much right to an opinion, and respecting that idea.
4. Bringing your bad mood, or attitude and making others on the forum suffer for it.
5. Hurling insults, or rude comments for sport (as if they would appreciate it).
6. Flaming others to see how fast you can get a thread off-topic.
Oops, can't think of anymore at the moment.
Great topic!
Looking back, I think I started hanging out at OT to cut down on my GAS. It has worked, I don't buy as many basses and arguing is free!
While an energized discussions can be fun, we all know it take two to tango. While some people come in with no intention of engaging in a productive discussion, other folks will get drawn in by those folks and add fuel to things (myself included) and that's 50% of the problem.
I am trying to get better at getting out or not engaging when that sort of thing starts to happen and I find myself getting drawn in. It's hard sometimes, I must admit.
I am trying to get better at getting out or not engaging when that sort of thing starts to happen and I find myself getting drawn in. It's hard sometimes, I must admit.
