Why do we put up with bad behavior?

[Manticore]

"We" don't. I discovered long ago acceptance of bad behavior brings more bad behavior. Don't accept it and it will largely disappear.

 

[esoxhntr]

Then we post about it here.

 

[JRA]

I've noticed a lot of threads lately describing awful situations from one or more band members where the OP almost asks permission from TB to do the obvious thing--which is usually to fire badly behaving member or leave the badly behaving band. I myself went through this with a badly behaving band for far too long before I did something about it. Why do we do this? Are we all just too nice?

speak for yourself!

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

I'm not too nice, and I think being too nice is bad. I prefer people being straight rather than being nice just to be nice.

That being said I'd say I'm pretty nice in general, at least to your face it is..

 

[truand85]

The primary reason is that the vast majority of humans have an aversion to tension/confrontation/negotiations.many younger people are scared to death of it. They would rather internalize all of their problems than deal with them.

Musicians are weirdos (myself included). So they/we have to be dealt with on occasion. They/we have to be reprimanded on occasion. The adult ones get over it and keep on going.

But that's it in a nutshell. It's not kindness. It's fear. Fear of confrontation amd fear of the unknown if the confrontation doesn't go well.

Yup. Grow thicker skin, learn that not everything is as big a deal as it seems. It's a good lesson to learn about dealing with people from all walks of life. Don't be afraid to confront, to argue, it's the stuff that makes relationships (of all kinds) stronger.

The worst thing you can do to someone is ignore they exist.

 

[Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw]

For me, it's because a mediocre situation is much better than the gap that can come from leaving the situation..

There is a point at which I will drop out, but it has to get so bad that doing nothing during those hours is preferable until I find something new.

 

[voodoobassist]

I run a couple of groups, and have fired my share of bad actors. I really try NOT to have to do that for one particular reason. I've found that the odds are, you wind up trading one set of problems from an individual for a different set from the person you replace him with. Not always of course, but,....being we're talking about musicians,... a lot of us tend to be a somewhat flaky lot. Unless you know the new guy fairly well, you're rolling the dice.

My last two former drummers exemplify this. The first I fired had an alcohol problem. Great player, but foggy from the vino about half the time. Almost cost me a job when he arrived completely blasted. His followup replacement, a younger cat who didn't drink or have any substance abuse problems. Another great player, but sadly lacking in work ethic and commitment to the group. Fired after showing up late 3 gigs in a row.

My theory is, creative types/musicians are just a flaky lot in general. If you can find solid folks, keep them. Small idiosyncrasies can be forgiven and tolerated. The problem arises when those small things turn into larger ones slowly over time and you kind of blind yourself to them. For me anymore it's like baseball,....3 strikes and you're out.

 

[Space Pickle]

because i am a broken shell of a man terrified of any perceived conflict

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Most of us are raised to believe that if we give people an opportunity to change, they can and will. Most of us are not raised with the idea that people show you through their behavior exactly who they are, and you are under no obligation to work with someone who is showing you something you don't like.

We're also raised with the ethos that we're subordinates in many situations (to our parents, to our bosses, to other authorities like bandleaders) and this is supposed to be a good thing. We believe we have a duty to defer to those who outrank us. So we get confused when our instincts are telling us that a situation is untenable, but what we've been told is appropriate behavior doesn't match up with our instincts.

Then we post about it here.

I’ve been fortunate not to have worked for or with problem people for very long. Those relationships tend to work out given time. Bands generally have a short shelf life. Add in a problem child (children), and the life shortens dramatically.

I’ve been a part of a musical entity that has been in existence for over 50 years. Of course the personal has changed over the decades, the ones that left come into 5 types. Retirees, employment issues or relocations, death, and problem people. We have had two problem people, one couldn’t stand the BL, the other had a substance abuse issue (thank heavens currently in recovery). One drummer that left because there weren’t enough gigs. Three have passes on, and the rest retirement, or employment demands, and or relocations.

The moral of the story is it can be done. Don’t be a counter productive problem, and don’t accept others that are. Be careful you understand the motives and personalities of people you bring or joining.

Being a musician does not give one the right to be a jerk.

 

[fishdreams]

Like everywhere else in life-work, family- it comes down to work with what you have. For 93% of the people we deal with, redeeming qualities are balanced out by obnoxious tendencies, and counting ourselves among that 93%. It becomes an endless negotiation laced with frustration, which is IME what really breeds sustained success in love, life, work, and also, music.

With a lot of these band stories here on the forum i recognize soemthing i used to do - treat band life as a sort of ideal world shaped by rigid ideas of good and bad, an escape from everyday life. And it is not.

It took me blowing up or ragequitting many bands in my musical past before i figured out that music is just like everything else in life.

 

[Pdaddy1978]

Wellll....... sometimes...... its because your friends.
Aaaaaand maybe you've been playin together for a long,long time.
Oooor maybe your wife and his wife are friends....
There are lots of reasons why it "could" be hard to sever a relationship like a bandmate.
Unless your just 100% mercenary with your playing, bands and band mates can be sticky things to navigate.
Have you ever watched VH1s behind the music?
People +time= problems
You gotta take each problem on a case by case basis.

 

[darwin-bass]

In a bad relationship you are at least in a relationship.

 

[Killing Floor]

We put up with bad behavior because some folks don't want to invest the work to learn to program digital drums.

 

[coy garcia]

I just want to play. If they show up prepared and it works on stage, rehearsal, studio... I'm good. I don't care or judge.
On more than 1 occasion I politely remind the wife that we don't go home with that person and their issue is none of my buss.

 

[Marko 1]

I myself went through this with a badly behaving band for far too long before I did something about it.

I'm guessing the vast majority of us have. Three times for me, two of them with the same group of guys, lol.

I (cautiously) have my hopes up with the newest band; I'm retired from the day job, and I want to ride this one out for the duration.

 

[juancaminos]

It can be thought that a crap gig is better than no gig....

It isnt..but .

THIS! I've mentioned this before...I live in the mountains where band opportunities are few compared to the city. So I tend to put up with more crap. Like songs that I don't like, BL that isn't so good at mixing the pa, etc.

 

[BoogieZK]

I've noticed a lot of threads lately describing awful situations from one or more band members where the OP almost asks permission from TB to do the obvious thing--which is usually to fire badly behaving member or leave the badly behaving band. I myself went through this with a badly behaving band for far too long before I did something about it. Why do we do this? Are we all just too nice?

Because musicians are bad behaving 4 years old childs? And no matter the true age, a musician is still a 4 yo child?

Since i got that, i always back myself and my bands with cautions on musicians behavior and prevent all situations that can turn bad.
Not easy but i think the same at my job actually.

And yeah, you'll have to do a lot of work if you want to have an healthy band.
Music is like 33% of the band work. Tops.

 

[glocke1]

I've noticed a lot of threads lately describing awful situations from one or more band members where the OP almost asks permission from TB to do the obvious thing--which is usually to fire badly behaving member or leave the badly behaving band. I myself went through this with a badly behaving band for far too long before I did something about it. Why do we do this? Are we all just too nice?

for me it's a lack of other opportunities in my area, I need to exhaust all possible means of fixing something or else end up not playing at all.

 

[el murdoque]

In my neck of the woods, it's kind of hard to replace some people, because it's not densely populated. I'm in a reggae band. In a 50 mile radius, there's not much choice regarding a drummer or bassist. There are not many to begin with. The Venn diagram of those that could play reggae at the required skill level and those that want to play reggae leaves basically no one else, not even factoring in those who have time to commit to another band. My band has to put up with me.
Luckily I'm a great guy to be in a band with ;-)

 

[lbbc]

I think that many of us, depending on the bad behavior and what that person "brings to the table", tend to put up with the person because of not wanting to "start over" with someone new.

Years ago, I had a very talented guitarist who would show up late to rehearsal, late to gigs (10 min before we had to start and then take 20+ min to get set up and tune up), wouldn't learn new material he didn't particularly like, and complain about the location of the gig etc. Bad behavior, for sure IMHO, but he could sing any harmony, had a great stage presence and played great (rhythm and lead). I played in a band with him for 4 years. It took me about 8 years to find another guitarist, of his talent, and the band is much more "on the same page".