Why do we put up with bad behavior?

[bobba66]

There may be a tiny minority of musicians that crave attention. Bad behavior will get you some attention.

 

[BazzaBass]

I've noticed a lot of threads lately describing awful situations from one or more band members where the OP almost asks permission from TB to do the obvious thing--which is usually to fire badly behaving member or leave the badly behaving band. I myself went through this with a badly behaving band for far too long before I did something about it. Why do we do this? Are we all just too nice?

I've noticed a lot of threads lately describing awful situations from one or more band members where the OP almost asks permission from TB to do the obvious thing--which is usually to fire badly behaving member or leave the badly behaving band. I myself went through this with a badly behaving band for far too long before I did something about it. Why do we do this? Are we all just too nice?

“The standard you walk past is the standard you accept”. Australian Chief of the Army, Lieutenant-General David Morrison

 

[Ken Morgan]

Life is basically too short to tolerate bad behavior. The internal stress of working with immature, abusive, or whatever folks is, at my age, not worth the paycheck, no matter how lucrative.

People hire me to do my job without theatrics and drama. It’s not asking too much to expect the same.

 

[Green Hornet]

Many times I have seen (and experienced) that the person with the bad behavior is a 'good buddy/old friend' or a relative of the person in charge.

 

[Tom Kinter]

Whenever possible, I always tried to play a round of golf with people with whom I was going to play serious music or enter into a business arrangement. Saved lots of time and trouble.

 

[Koshchei]

It's pretty much Sunk Cost Fallacy in its full glory. We invest a ton of time into something that doesn't work out, and we don't want to write off our contribution. But sometimes, we do need to cut bait.

Posting to TB isn't a bad thing. Sometimes it takes a reality check from peers to realize how untenable a situation has become, and reaching out for help is never a bad thing.

 

[prowla]

I like to think of myself as an optimist and so I always expect the best in people, which tends to mean I am invariably disappointed.

 

[Savage_Dreams]

for all the same reasons people do in their personal life. its not specifically about bands.

 

[ArteK]

I think when we’re less experienced we think we will have a hard time finding good opportunities, so we put up with crap to keep our “good gig”.

After we get more experience (and maybe more talent, too) we realize our own worth more, and that there are other “good gigs” out there, so you don’t have to put up with these kinds of behaviors just to keep a gig.

I think I stopped putting up with this stuff maybe 15-20 years ago. I did learn how to sing well enough to handle lead vocal duties, which opened up a lot of doors for me (and probably most contributed to my freedom from having to endure bad behavior just to keep a gig).

 

[Jeremy Crockett]

Bad behavior no longer carries with it a societal expectation of working to extinguish it.

We have been told to be more "tolerant" and "accepting" of people behaving badly.

The problem is that until this bad behavior has bad consequences for the bad actor, we will languish under the false idea that, somehow, magically, the bad actor will "redeem themselves". This is a fantasy.

No one wants to be the harda$$, but someone has to, needs to, MUST do it.

 

[12BitSlab]

The primary reason is that the vast majority of humans have an aversion to tension/confrontation/negotiations.many younger people are scared to death of it. They would rather internalize all of their problems than deal with them.

Musicians are weirdos (myself included). So they/we have to be dealt with on occasion. They/we have to be reprimanded on occasion. The adult ones get over it and keep on going.

But that's it in a nutshell. It's not kindness. It's fear. Fear of confrontation amd fear of the unknown if the confrontation doesn't go well.

Good points!

One thing I’ve noticed is that many people have lost the ability to handle day-to-day conflict resolution. Those who don’t remember not having the Internet display “super tough guy” personalities when “speaking” on-line while becoming complete milquetoast in face-to-face situations. They don’t know how to take the middle road and talk with someone about issues. Instead we see all out war on Twitter, FB, Instagram, etc. and total subservience in person.

 

[Koshchei]

I like to think of myself as an optimist and so I always expect the best in people, which tends to mean I am invariably disappointed.

How is that optimism? It seems more like you have unrealistic expectations that nobody can live up to.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

I think by the time you're in your 40s, you have become whatever it is you are. I won't play with jerks. Having said that, the band I play in now is a dysfunctional family. The difference being we're only dysfunctional in rehearsal. That's the place for being a jerk and screaming "That's a terrible idea!" When we hit the stage, we are all on the same page. And we've played together long enough (7 years) that when you screw something up, all you get is a laugh and an eyeroll.

 

[Jefenator]

IME some of the best players are also the worst ****-ups. If a person can really, really, really play, that may merit some consideration. Exactly how much, depends.
Sometimes a group isn’t so musically intense, but at least everyone in it has a drivers license and a reliable vehicle.
I often refer back to the old Charlie Christian anecdote that states the only reason to take your guitar out of its case is 1) to make money 2) to have fun or 3) to learn something.
When it’s zero for three, even I will gather up the nerve and quit.

 

[pepj]

Most bands dont put up with it and what you get here are the more extreme examples that actually make an interesting thread.

I'm sure most have got stories from the past that are actually quite funny now... but generally when these issues show, they are dealt with and we all move on.

Unless people come recommended, they normally dont get used and if one or two get through, they are sussed pretty quickly...and not used anymore.

The trick really is that you dont choose from an open pool in the first place

 

[emal]

I am an 'average', INTERMEDIATE bassist. I take the longest to learn songs, I am usually the less talented in many jam rooms. Despite this, I've had bands keep me instead of an UBER talented bassist because of piss poor attitudes, and rather be patient with me then have to be patient with a bad bandmate. Despite the fact I may be slowing them down. I live in a big city so options are there but I can imagine when there isn't much out there...

 

[jnuts1]

I've noticed a lot of threads lately describing awful situations from one or more band members where the OP almost asks permission from TB to do the obvious thing--which is usually to fire badly behaving member or leave the badly behaving band. I myself went through this with a badly behaving band for far too long before I did something about it. Why do we do this? Are we all just too nice?

sometimes you jsut dont have the manpower to fire someone or they are the band. sometimes its downright impossible to find a good permenant member. when i had kids i left the band along with the drummer and singer for the same reason. the band was able to replace me and drums but never the singer. now we are all back together with the original line up and i will deal with all of his missed practices and lies because he is so good and energetic.

 

[logdrum]

I liked it during COVID that there were not so many Band Management threads. My comment is, that many rants here can be dealt with it locally and not aired out in the internet. And there is no 1 size fit all solution to anything. In my day job talking about work in social media is a no no and can get you fired. I do the same for my now meagre musical life but have no intention of doing so if I ever get busy again. I will deal with it in real time, face to face.

Also criticizing weed use when you have all manners of anti-depressants, anti-anxiety and pain meds in your medicine cabinet and rationalizing 6 beers a night and a night cap of whiskey is hypocritical to me. I have an acquaintance who is such and I hope those that act as holier than thou here do not live in glass houses.

Rant over.

 

[Wood and Wire]

Some accounts on some sites(and social media) are there to ask provocative questions and document responses. Some companies are building models based on behavior on the net. This is a real thing. AI has come a long way. This may or may not apply to all sites and users, obviously, but it's a real thing. Firing the drummer is the correct response.

Facebook's A.I. has become so sophisticated, that for a few years now, it has been observing subconscious micro-behaviour, and knows several weeks before the user makes the conscious decision, that they are ending their current relationship.

This is why a drum machine never needs to be fired, it just ups and leaves first.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

Everyone’s situation is different, but usually talent/skill/availability of replacement balances with a-holeness

it is tough making a band work. living in a place full of artists is one thing that helps.