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why do you have a dedicated bass preamp?

sadworld

sadworld

Feb 2, 2009
77
5
michigan
www.slickjimmyband.com
Disclosures
Im no sound guy but gear and running sound interests me.
#1
im looking into a dedicated bass preamp set up with seperate power. i've never set up like this before and as i research it seems like it's an underground thing. why i say that is cause two major places i called to go test some out didn't have any in stock. guitar center stocks none (at least my local store) and motor city guitar out of detroit (massive music dealer) had the sans amp and that's it.... obviously (?) the bass head with built in pre is much more popular. so i ask these questions.... what made you switch your setup to a dedicated pre and also what did you upgrade from? you couldn't find a regular head/pre that you liked? please share, cause if i go this route, i will no doubt be buying without trying. and selecting preamps by research alone... of course i will buy from a reputable dealer who will take merchandise back if unsatisfied (musicians friend prolly) thanks. matt.
 
#3
More power....more flexibility. You can set yourself on a poweramp and swap out preamps as you please. Preamps run anywhere from $100 for a old used piece (mines a Yamaha pb-1) to $800-$1000 for Demeters, (and more for Avalons and such).
 
#4
You can get more power for less money using a pre/power rig than a head. You can start with the power amp. My goto power amp is a Carvin DCM1000. It's a stereo unit and can give 500W/channel @2Ω. I use mine with both channels running in parallel (there's a switch to allow this) to drive a pair of 4Ω 2x10 cabinets and it give me 350W into each for an effective Price about $330. At first I used one of the ART Tube MP units to drive the power amp. No EQ but I like how my basses sound flat anyway so price around the $40 mark. I ran this way for quite a while until I obtained a better pre-amp.

Pre-amps are available from Ampeg, BBE, Demeter, Kern and many more at different price points. Don't overlook mic pre-amp strips. Some make really nice bass pre-amps.

Paul
 
#6
Strangely, I recently read a rave by a bass writer/teacher/studioguy for some discontinued Peavey (!) bass tube rackmount preamp he claimed was worth looking for.

I'd never really considered the preamp/poweramp option as I've always tried to steer away from the Tower of Babel rack-monstrosity look, but being obsessively curious, I wouldn't mind some experimenting.

LIKE I NEED MORE AMPS! Jeeze, where do I put all this stuff?

But cheap, yeah: With a BDI21 for a frontend and one of those cheap Nady power amps MF is always Stupid-Dealing, you could have major wattage for under $200. Would it last? Would the noise floor drive you mad? I have no idea.
 
#7
part of the deal (besides flexibility and getting exactly the tone you want) is only having to buy a power section once. There are lots of great sounding integrated heads out there that won't cut it on some of my gigs volume wise, either due to wattage, or not being able to power multiple cabs.

this gets to be a big deal if you are like me and like to use several small 8 ohm cabs. I have 4, and bring as many to a gig as i need. The added pita of having to bring a poweramp and preamp to the gig is negated on all of those small gigs where i only need one or two cabs. If i relied on a larger 4 ohm cab to handle the big gigs (let's say a 6x10 or something) i would have to bring that to every gig.

Last but not least, with some exceptions you can get a much better preamp seperately than is available in most integrated heads. And as i said before, you can find a great preamp as a part of an integrated head but have to pass it up as it doesn't have the wattage you need.
 
#8
oh yeah..........

i found a couple of skb 2 space racks with suitcase style handles on the sides. one is for my poweramp, the other is for the preamp. This is much much easier than schlepping a 4 or more space rack.
 
#9
Bongolation said:
Strangely, I recently read a rave by a bass writer/teacher/studioguy for some discontinued Peavey (!) bass tube rackmount preamp he claimed was worth looking for.
Click to expand...

Nothing strange about Peavey gear being good.

Bongolation said:
But cheap, yeah: With a BDI21 for a frontend and one of those cheap Nady power amps MF is always Stupid-Dealing, you could have major wattage for under $200. Would it last? Would the noise floor drive you mad? I have no idea.
Click to expand...

BDI21 is a DI, not a pre-amp. It doesn't have the signal to push a power amp. Nice DI, and tube warmth pedal, though.

Nady? Bad idea. Behringer EP range are quite affordable, and good reliable amps, as well. With the EP1500 selling for under USD250, from reputable dealers, it just makes no sense to buy anything cheaper.
 
#10
ulrich said:
BDI21 is a DI, not a pre-amp. It doesn't have the signal to push a power amp. Nice DI, and tube warmth pedal, though.
Click to expand...
It certainly is not big output, but it depends -- the claim is that it will put out as much as the Sansamp on which it's modeled, which people routinely use to drive power amps -- but I also see some people saying the Sansamp won't run their power amp either...so I guess it's a case of individual setups barely making it or not. [shrug]

The BDI21 is indeed a total no-brainer for cheap/good bass direct recording, though. Fantastic value for +/-US$25.

I may pick up a cheap Yamaha PB-1 to doink around with just for amusement sake. They're OK for clean stuff.
 
#11
ulrich said:
Nothing strange about Peavey gear being good.
Click to expand...
It was this thing:
tb_raxx438x90.jpg


The old T. B. Raxx.

I have no idea if he knows what he's talking about or not. Peavey gear still has some problems being taken seriously in some quarters, and this seems to be regional. Up until a couple of years ago, nobody out here would have been caught dead with the stuff without being paid to, based on what prejudice I dunno.

I've never owned a Peavey anything, as I usually found their stuff too ugly and generally still do.
 
#12
Bongolation said:
It certainly is not big output, but it depends -- the claim is that it will put out as much as the Sansamp on which it's modeled, which people routinely use to drive power amps -- but I also see some people saying the Sansamp won't run their power amp either...so I guess it's a case of individual setups barely making it or not. [shrug]
Click to expand...

Active bass-> BDI21 (level at 11) -> QSC RMX 1450 (notoriously insensitive) -> 1X12. Almost no sound even with the QSC cranked. So BDI21 is useless as a pre, with an un-modded QSC RMX.

Other amps may work OK. My BDI21 drives the **** out of the mic input on the Toa architectural amp that I use for practice.
 
#13
I use an old Ashly BP41 and it's best feature for me is the crossover and the ability to biamp 2 different cabs. I run an older QSC PLX that provides plenty of power and is very flexible from indoors to outdoor gigs, never had a problem with 500 watts @ 4 Ohms per cab.
Dirk
 
#14
Bongolation said:
Strangely, I recently read a rave by a bass writer/teacher/studioguy for some discontinued Peavey (!) bass tube rackmount preamp he claimed was worth looking for.
Click to expand...

Bongolation said:
It was this thing:
tb_raxx438x90.jpg


The old T. B. Raxx.

I have no idea if he knows what he's talking about or not. Peavey gear still has some problems being taken seriously in some quarters, and this seems to be regional. Up until a couple of years ago, nobody out here would have been caught dead with the stuff without being paid to, based on what prejudice I dunno.

I've never owned a Peavey anything, as I usually found their stuff too ugly and generally still do.
Click to expand...

I own and use the T.B. Raxx. Got it used and I've had no problems with it. I'm in the South and I see Peavey stuff all the time. I'm of the opinion that some of it (mainly cabs) has a bit too much of its own voice for my taste, but I like this pre.

To answer the question (again), flexibility.
 
#16
Flexibility and power, for sure but also an active crossover, better S/N ratio and better protection features in the PA power amp than in the typical bass amp.
I have an EBS 1v2 preamp (discontinued) and a Labgruppen poweramp.

/Alexander
 
#17
Fufubear said:
SO, im not entirely sure how this works...but with a Poweramp, could a pedal like the Tone Hammer or an EBS valve drive be used as the preamp?
Click to expand...

This is where it gets tricky. Some power amps have more gain at the input stage, which allows them to be used with pedals. Actually, it also depends on how much gain the pedal gives you.

It's safer to use a preamp rather than a pedal, but if you do your research you could use a pedal with a power amp. Perhaps someone here can answer your questions regarding the Tone Hammer and Valve Drive.
 
#18
Bongolation said:
It was this thing:
tb_raxx438x90.jpg


The old T. B. Raxx.

I have no idea if he knows what he's talking about or not. Peavey gear still has some problems being taken seriously in some quarters, and this seems to be regional. Up until a couple of years ago, nobody out here would have been caught dead with the stuff without being paid to, based on what prejudice I dunno.

I've never owned a Peavey anything, as I usually found their stuff too ugly and generally still do.
Click to expand...

Sweet pre. I want it. I currently use a Peavey ProBass 1000, solid state pre.

Yeah folks don't take Peavey seriously. Whatevs, people are stupid sheep; musos are stupider sheep. Lots of folks only like P bass-> SVT -> Fridge. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Heck, plenty of people take Monster seriously. When it comes to buying gear, what the masses like, is no indication of quality.

I love me some Peavey gear. I own: 1993 Peavey Foundation 5, 1990 Peavey Sarzo, 1986 Peavey Patriot, Peavey ProBass 1000 pre, Peavey 215.
 
#19
sadworld said:
what made you switch your setup to a dedicated pre and also what did you upgrade from?
Click to expand...

My favorite rig was a vintage SVT stack. Eventually I got tired of lugging around all the weight, so I switched to pre/power. As noted by others, the main advantage to pre/power is flexibility: if you find a power amp you like, you can simply swap out preamp modules. I myself own a half-dozen different preamps. You can configure your rack as you like: add a nice compressor or rack tuner, use a rack FX unit, etc.

One thing I'm not sure anyone has mentioned: if a consolidated bass head stops making sound at a gig, you're likely dead in the water. On the other hand, with a pre/power system, you probably have more options. For example, most power amps are stereo: I played a gig where one side of my amp went out, but I finished the gig using the other channel. Also, I once had a preamp fail on me, but removed the faulty preamp from the signal path, and completed the gig by using my compressor as preamp straight into the power amp.
 

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