Why does a "PJ" configuration sound so refined and elegant?

[JimmyM]

Regarding what John's been saying about thinness in the PJ config, I've got 4 PJ's with different pickup configs, and just went through them all listening with headphones.

The SX with the stock vintage style pickups had a definite loss of balls on the upper notes when in full PJ mode and only slightly less when you rolled off the J pickup a little. The 76 Precision with the 62 CS P and the DiMarzio Ultrajazz fared way better. It did the standard phasing/volume cut thing with both full-on, but it was still a pretty ballsy tone. And backing off the J pickup, I didn't notice any lack of balls at all. The parts P with the DiMarzio Model PJ's, ditto, only with more output and less highs. The P Lyte with EMG PJ's is seemingly bulletproof against phasing out with both on full, and has no lack of balls, either.

Too bad it's not as simple as humbucker vs single coil, though. I used to run the Ultrajazz (humbucker) in my P Lyte along with a Duncan Quarter Pounder P (humbucker), and hated the Ultrajazz because both pickups on full made the high notes noticeably phased out and weak. I replaced the Ultrajazz with a QP J (single coil), and while it wasn't bright enough for my tastes in that bass, it sounded much better and much fuller. And it looks like getting matched PJ sets may help, but not always since the SX "matched" set didn't do so well, and the Ultrajazz that sucked the life out of one bass made the other pop.

So apparently luck is the biggest factor in getting a set of PJ's to pop.

 

[johnk_10]

The sweet spot moves in relation to where the string it at a certain part of it's oscillation. If you move up the neck, the sweet spot does too.

the sweet spot for the pickup does not move. what part of that do you not understand?

 

[JimmyM]

The sweet spot moves in relation to where the string it at a certain part of it's oscillation. If you move up the neck, the sweet spot does too.

Seriously, I bet if I asked you to urinate on me if I caught on fire - you'd say 'No'. Is there anything besides selling out that you'd like me to do too?

Well maybe you should invent a bass with a sliding pickup that moves in relation to where you're fretting. Otherwise, the pickup has to be in one spot, and harmonic convergence or not, that particular pickup position works better than others if you're a fan of the Precision sound.

 

[blendermassacre]

Well maybe you should invent a bass with a sliding pickup that moves in relation to where you're fretting. Otherwise, the pickup has to be in one spot, and harmonic convergence or not, that particular pickup position works better than others if you're a fan of the Precision sound.

Gibson Grabber?

 

[johnk_10]

here's some quick clips to show what i'm talking about regarding the phasing of a P J pickup locations.
i used two different P J's for the clips. one has Fralins old with roundwounds, and the other has a Lollar P with a fender custom shop J in the bridge with TI Flats. both recorded on a zoom H4n, playing thru my SVT7 pro/215 3015 cab.

PJ#1-Fralins/roundwounds (the first and third 8 notes played across the fingerboard are just the P, and i switched to the PJ for the second and fourth 8 notes to compare them back and forth)

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PJ#2-Lollar/TiFlats- same test with a couple of extra notes(first the P, then the PJ)

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[JimmyM]

here's some quick clips to show what i'm talking about regarding the phasing of a P J pickup locations.
i used two different P J's for the clips. one has Fralins old with roundwounds, and the other has a Lollar P with a fender custom shop J in the bridge with TI Flats. both recorded on a zoom H4n, playing thru my SVT7 pro/215 3015 cab.

PJ#1-Fralins/roundwounds (the first and third 8 notes played across the fingerboard are just the P, and i switched to the PJ for the second and fourth 8 notes to compare them back and forth)

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

PJ#2-Lollar/TiFlats- same test with a couple of extra notes(first the P, then the PJ)

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Wow, and you didn't like that with the PJ's? I sure did! Sure, I noticed the phasing, but I thought that was a pretty solid Jazz-ish sound in both. Is it that you just don't care for the sound of two pickups in general, or does the PJ config get singled out for a special honor? Because I'm not finding anything too objectionable about either of those basses, though I thought the effect was less exaggerated with the Fralins so I liked them a little better.

 

[JimmyM]

Gibson Grabber?

Slides, but stays put when you play. Joe needs one that moves as you play

 

[SurferJoe46]

Slides, but stays put when you play. Joe needs one that moves as you play

Perhaps I could attach the slider to my unused thumb?

 

[Guygrooves]

IM WITH AND FEEL YOU-been playing for years and have had MANY many types of basses and have come to the determination that the P-J configuration is so right for me and now its pretty much the staple in my stable! I can dial in tons of tones on the fly and thats a great plus in my cover band situation -so many artists and I try to emulate their tones!
2010 Fender AM Deluxe-(with Nords)-
Spector Ns-2A with EMGs and dial in Tonepump-
Lakland 44-02 Deluxe (similar dual pickup design).

 

[blendermassacre]

here's some quick clips to show what i'm talking about regarding the phasing of a P J pickup locations.
i used two different P J's for the clips. one has Fralins old with roundwounds, and the other has a Lollar P with a fender custom shop J in the bridge with TI Flats. both recorded on a zoom H4n, playing thru my SVT7 pro/215 3015 cab.

PJ#1-Fralins/roundwounds (the first and third 8 notes played across the fingerboard are just the P, and i switched to the PJ for the second and fourth 8 notes to compare them back and forth)

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

PJ#2-Lollar/TiFlats- same test with a couple of extra notes(first the P, then the PJ)

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Ugh. Yeah. Thanks for the confirmation.

It just sort of murders the lovely P bass tone for me.

 

[blendermassacre]

Slides, but stays put when you play. Joe needs one that moves as you play

I don't have enough hands for that.

 

[Thundar]

Wow, and you didn't like that with the PJ's? I sure did! Sure, I noticed the phasing, but I thought that was a pretty solid Jazz-ish sound in both. Is it that you just don't care for the sound of two pickups in general, or does the PJ config get singled out for a special honor? Because I'm not finding anything too objectionable about either of those basses, though I thought the effect was less exaggerated with the Fralins so I liked them a little better.

+1 The P/J combination sounds fantastic to me too! Guess thats why I dont own P-basses

 

[jrcorp]

Maybe I'm missing something, but if I had the choice of a P bass or a P/J bass, why wouldn't I take the P/J? I can understand the argument of the P "sweet spot," but then what if on the P/J it's close or the same?

I know that going down this road can get ugly too, but for me at least with P/J's being so common, a P bass isn't high on the GAS list. I would rather grab an MM, a soapbar, and perhaps a Jazz or something else before a P, because to me I have what I need for P sounds already.

 

[johnk_10]

Wow, and you didn't like that with the PJ's? I sure did! Sure, I noticed the phasing, but I thought that was a pretty solid Jazz-ish sound in both. Is it that you just don't care for the sound of two pickups in general, or does the PJ config get singled out for a special honor?

nope, call me crazy, PJ's just don't do it for me. when i play them, the phasing difference because of their staggered spacing even becomes more noticeable. i guess that i'm just too picky.

that said, i do like two pickup basses, like a jazz bass, my grestch, alembic, jaguar bass, gibsons (EB3 and T-bird) and my rickenbackers. heck, my custom ric (in my avatar)even has 3!

 

[grendle]

here's some quick clips to show what i'm talking about regarding the phasing of a P J pickup locations.
i used two different P J's for the clips. one has Fralins old with roundwounds, and the other has a Lollar P with a fender custom shop J in the bridge with TI Flats. both recorded on a zoom H4n, playing thru my SVT7 pro/215 3015 cab.

PJ#1-Fralins/roundwounds (the first and third 8 notes played across the fingerboard are just the P, and i switched to the PJ for the second and fourth 8 notes to compare them back and forth)

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

PJ#2-Lollar/TiFlats- same test with a couple of extra notes(first the P, then the PJ)

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Yeah I hear what your talking about now. I Definatly prefer the p/j combo though lol. They sounded good, but Definatly not my thing.

 

[JimmyM]

nope, call me crazy, PJ's just don't do it for me. when i play them, the phasing difference because of their staggered spacing even becomes more noticeable. i guess that i'm just too picky.

that said, i do like two pickup basses, like a jazz bass, my grestch, alembic, jaguar bass, gibsons (EB3 and T-bird) and my rickenbackers. heck, my custom ric (in my avatar)even has 3!

DOH! Had I thought about that, I wouldn't have even asked! I am not too swift on the uptake today.

Well we all have likes and dislikes so I can dig it. I do like the P by itself better but I definitely wasn't hating the PJ sounds you got. OK, maybe the second one a little

 

[sunbeast]

My current PJ (a 70s Ibanez Lawsuit P with added J pickup) has the J pickup right up against the bridge, which I find seems to lessen that phasing effect compared to other PJ-style basses I've used in the past with the J in a more traditional placement. It makes soloing the J pickup mostly worthless, but that's not what I use this bass for anyway. For me the perfect setup is P on full with the J blended in between 50-75%- It has the overall feel of the P, but with more punch and bite and to my ears a BETTER balance across the strings than the P soloed.

I had a Fender Hotrod P bass with the J pickup and found the tone of that bass to be exactly as JohnK is describing. Kinda lost the beauty of the P vibe, and sounded thin when blended- the best tones were actually from the J pickup soloed on that bass. I had a G&L SB-2 on the other hand that worked really well (much like my current PJ), and its bridge pickup was mostly unuseable on its own (much like my Ibanez). I never should have sold that bass, though the Ibanez has been a pretty formidable replacement!

 

[Rutherford_Fan]

I know this is an older thread to "bump," but I just had to. As I mentioned in the thread (I started it), I turned my MIM Fender Jazz Deluxe into my "project" bass, and when I got it re-set-up and swapped the Noiseless Fender pickups out for EMG J-Series pickups, I was astonished, to say the least. It made such a huge improvement.

And I have been debating whether or not to sell one of my higher end basses to buy a PJ bass such as a Spector NS Euro. I have debated it for months now. But I have finally decided to simply do what I should have all along: Turn the Fender Jazz into a PJ. I ordered a split-coil EMG P pickup today and will simply route out the space for it where the neck pickup is currently, substitute it, solder it in, and have the PJ bass I have always dreamed of without having to sell one of my nicer basses.

And since the Fender already was completely overhauled in terms of set-up and fret-work, I know it is already a great instrument and don't risk getting a "below average" instrument even from a good company (just by luck of the draw).

One other thing to mention: I decided to purchase the EMG PA pickup...that is the Alcino V version of the P pickup. The reason is because all of the attributes I listed about the classic "PJ" sound involve the P pickup playing the part of the somewhat muted, slow on attack, warm part with the single-coil J pickup taking up the bite and clank factor. So I said "What the heck" and we'll see how the PA pickup works out! I suspect it will be great.

 

[JimmyM]

Hope it works out for you. I'd have probably left the EMG J's alone myself, but trying new stuff is fun as well, and the Jazz with PJ's look is pretty unique. And while I'm a fan of Spector basses for sure, there really is nothing like a well setup Fender for me.

 

[joelb79]

This is killer playing

To each their own. Overplaying does not make up for lack of feel IMO. A Jazz professor would eat up his hand technique as well. You can't make everybody happy. I don't mean to start an argument, just a disagreeing. Hopefully everybody can see that I mean this in good nature and not in a mean derogatory way. Not everything has to be +1 around here right?

I will +1 the PJ tone when the bridge pickup is custom wound and matched with a custom wound P can be totally awesome. It doesn't HAVE to be active to be done right IMO, the proper matching of pickups will make up for what people attempt to fix with the active circuit.