Chances are if the soundman owns his own PA he may have as much or more money invested in his gear than your whole band put together.
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Why don't bands have their own sound engineers?
- Thread starter T-Bird
- Start date
Chances are if the soundman owns his own PA he may have as much or more money invested in his gear than your whole band put together.
tru dat. hell, my most regular soundman has more in mics alone than i have into my bass gear.
I wouldn't automatically jump to that conclusion, I've seen quite a few $2500 or so rigs over the years... it's all relative.
+100 Amen! My point exactly.
I would love to have a sound guy boost my guitarist's solos, make me sound better, make the band overall sound better, coordinate the light show because they know what song we are covering beforehand and so on...... we don't have the money for that, nor the leverage over clubs to get our soundguy in there.
It's kind of stupid of to step into a really nice bar/music venue (Durty Nellis in Palatine, IL) and set up your own PA system. They already have 8 18's under the stage and at least 6 midrange boxes, plus a small array in the middle. They also already routed the cables in a pipe buried in the concrete. Why bother?
Any loser with a $2500.00 PA is not a soundman.
I have more money than that in cases and racks.
butchblack
Life is short. Do good. Find and do what you love.
True
Our guitarist just dropped between 2-3G on a PA system and he already had a G's worth of equipment we'll be using. I could easily see a soundman with a bigger full set having close to 8-10 G invested. Part of having a business is recouping your costs.
Instead, the sound guy probably spends most of his "spare time" repairing broken cables and snakes at his warehouse (which he has to pay rent for), running a broken amp to repair (costly, unless under warranty), studying new technology (like the internal patching on his new digital desk) and learning acoustics (there are bookloads of info on the matter). On the day of the gig he´ll haul his gear to site, set it up, and do the gig for little money (remember his investment and expenses) and little to none of recognition. He will get blamed (by both the band and the audience) if the band doesn´t sound right, though, be it his fault, or the band´s...
Any loser with a $2500.00 PA is not a soundman.
Seriously. A decent console alone will cost more than that.
A great question. It would put an end to certain topics that's for sure.
I don't think the sound engineers and gear should be so closely connected. A band may or may not have their own PA, or parts of a PA or whatever. You can have your sound guy use your gear, or mix using the venue's gear, whatever.
Pay him an equal cut. If he's good, and makes you sound good, he's worth it.
I don't think the sound engineers and gear should be so closely connected. A band may or may not have their own PA, or parts of a PA or whatever. You can have your sound guy use your gear, or mix using the venue's gear, whatever.
Pay him an equal cut. If he's good, and makes you sound good, he's worth it.
We have a soundguy. He gets paid whether or not we, the band, get paid. It is just that important to not stress over the sound details and let someone competent deal with it.
- Aug 5, 2005
- 7,243
- 92
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: J.C. Basses
well if you can buy your own gear and hire someone to run it, that's a different story. but most soundmen i know own their own pa's, so i don't see how the two can be separated.
In my old band, we had our own guy who traveled with us. He was a great engineer, and because we knew each other and what we liked / disliked so well, it helped substantially in the overall FOH sound, I think. It was a beautiful thing. The bandleader ended up getting greedy however, and cut him from the payroll.
I'm looking for one to take an even cut. If anyone knows of any in Grand Rapids MI who will do this, send them my way.
A soundman owning his own PA means that no matter if it's a 200 or a 800 seater , he's gonna bring the same kit.
He probably has payment at the end of the month for this kit so it has to be used.
Can be cool and more economic in certain circomstances but don't sign with your blood an exclusivity contract with such a guy !
I'm a big believer of hiring a guy and renting the adequate equipement for the venue.
He probably has payment at the end of the month for this kit so it has to be used.
Can be cool and more economic in certain circomstances but don't sign with your blood an exclusivity contract with such a guy !
I'm a big believer of hiring a guy and renting the adequate equipement for the venue.
I'm a newbie on this forum so I'll tread a little light. I play bass and run sound for a living, sometimes I have to do both from stage. I prefer to hire someone and relax if I have to play. Hell, I'll hire out even if I am only running sound and I need labor.
Soundmen/women are a very diverse group and you have to remember this when dealing with them. Other sound people can quickly asses where they are at (incl band people) skill wise and adjust accordingly. If you're not in the business of sound and don't know what to look for it can be pretty rough. You've got different types:
The Art Institute or Full Sail graduate: Young, no idea how to mix live. Scraping pennies together to get a rig but disgusted with whatever you put them in front of. These guys usually end up at clubs for 3-6 months then give up to concentrate on "recording"
Guitar player's drinking buddy: Doesn't really know what does what but shows up to all the rehearsals and gigs mainly cuz there is free beer. Don't ask about specifics with him and don't change your rig. Too much conusion could take weeks to sort out.
The Band-leader's wife: Sadly where many band members get their sexist ideas about women in audio. I've met quite a few women who were really good, and some band member's wives who had talent (their husband's tied them down with a crappy band PA and all the male friends seemed to know better than them). Times are changing and this area seems to be the last frontier. Get with it gentlemen.
Old Grouchy club soundguy (2 parts): Part 1 is the tour veteran who knocked up a lady in your town and has to raise or pay child support. Often very bitter and bitches about everything. Part 2 is the Art Institute kid. Good luck there.
In House Theatre guy(s): Usually has a few really nice peices of gear from 88 and some folded horn cabs that say Altec. These guys are pretty snobby about the gear they use and really do believe there was a "good-ol'-days of audio" not realizing of course that the beatles were never heard above the deafing 16yr girls back in the day. And teh wall of sound really never caught on.
The part-timer: has a kick ass paying day job and too much time on his hands. Most likely has a bunch of really nice gear and no freakin' club how to set anything up. Also can't walk into a room with an exsisting PA and make it work. VERY long setup and teardown times.
That other band guy from the other band: He's the drummer whose band isn't gigging much so he decided to have his PA work for him. Only problem is his system is so proprietary noone else fits into it's mold. Plenty of cables tapes together, equipment can't go there because the cords aren't long enough, he only has exactly 14 mic cables and 3 monitor mixes. He always has the out of work bass player to lug gear though but the PA hasn't been tuned or overhauled since it left the music store.
The church sound guy: lost. move on.
The festival guy: Has no time for your awesome new pedal board and 8000 patch cable system. All he's interested in is how many channels your 15 min of fame will take up. Be quick, concise and always have a current stage plot. He'll remind you the console he's mixing on cost more than all the cars in your band. Get on stage, sound good, get off stage. No talkie, more get moving.
These are extremes and there are more but this is a good start. And no, I don't really fall into these catagories like most people don't either.
Soundmen/women are a very diverse group and you have to remember this when dealing with them. Other sound people can quickly asses where they are at (incl band people) skill wise and adjust accordingly. If you're not in the business of sound and don't know what to look for it can be pretty rough. You've got different types:
The Art Institute or Full Sail graduate: Young, no idea how to mix live. Scraping pennies together to get a rig but disgusted with whatever you put them in front of. These guys usually end up at clubs for 3-6 months then give up to concentrate on "recording"
Guitar player's drinking buddy: Doesn't really know what does what but shows up to all the rehearsals and gigs mainly cuz there is free beer. Don't ask about specifics with him and don't change your rig. Too much conusion could take weeks to sort out.
The Band-leader's wife: Sadly where many band members get their sexist ideas about women in audio. I've met quite a few women who were really good, and some band member's wives who had talent (their husband's tied them down with a crappy band PA and all the male friends seemed to know better than them). Times are changing and this area seems to be the last frontier. Get with it gentlemen.
Old Grouchy club soundguy (2 parts): Part 1 is the tour veteran who knocked up a lady in your town and has to raise or pay child support. Often very bitter and bitches about everything. Part 2 is the Art Institute kid. Good luck there.
In House Theatre guy(s): Usually has a few really nice peices of gear from 88 and some folded horn cabs that say Altec. These guys are pretty snobby about the gear they use and really do believe there was a "good-ol'-days of audio" not realizing of course that the beatles were never heard above the deafing 16yr girls back in the day. And teh wall of sound really never caught on.
The part-timer: has a kick ass paying day job and too much time on his hands. Most likely has a bunch of really nice gear and no freakin' club how to set anything up. Also can't walk into a room with an exsisting PA and make it work. VERY long setup and teardown times.
That other band guy from the other band: He's the drummer whose band isn't gigging much so he decided to have his PA work for him. Only problem is his system is so proprietary noone else fits into it's mold. Plenty of cables tapes together, equipment can't go there because the cords aren't long enough, he only has exactly 14 mic cables and 3 monitor mixes. He always has the out of work bass player to lug gear though but the PA hasn't been tuned or overhauled since it left the music store.
The church sound guy: lost. move on.
The festival guy: Has no time for your awesome new pedal board and 8000 patch cable system. All he's interested in is how many channels your 15 min of fame will take up. Be quick, concise and always have a current stage plot. He'll remind you the console he's mixing on cost more than all the cars in your band. Get on stage, sound good, get off stage. No talkie, more get moving.
These are extremes and there are more but this is a good start. And no, I don't really fall into these catagories like most people don't either.
Nice one Pete !
I laugh out loud .....
You forgot to mention the DJ
Wich is the only time you really heard the bass (but nothing else)
And I would also add ; the electronic technician
who could repair anything , trouble shoots like crazy but couldn't hear the ringing that is there for an hour.
I laugh out loud .....
You forgot to mention the DJ
Wich is the only time you really heard the bass (but nothing else)
And I would also add ; the electronic technician
who could repair anything , trouble shoots like crazy but couldn't hear the ringing that is there for an hour.
rockstarbassist
Inactive
In my old country band, and I've posted on this before, we were running probably about 20,000W through our JBL SRX setup, had a 48 channel or something A&H board with like 10 aux sends, so we all had our own IEM mixes, lights, outboard processors, room mics, like, the freaking works.
We played some big and not so big halls, but the PA was a bad@ss and handled it all and we could always just use part.
We had to have a soundguy for this, and he was a friend who also played bass PT, and the same age as the band, would drink with us, help setup, tear down, say stupid crap in our ear mixes during the show to make everyone laugh, etc..
Now for the smaller clubs/cover/rock scene, we can run our PA from the stage and it's no biggie. And for how little we're making starting out as a "new" band yet again, it's hard to cut in a guy for doing something we can do and it'll sound the exact same.
We played some big and not so big halls, but the PA was a bad@ss and handled it all and we could always just use part.
We had to have a soundguy for this, and he was a friend who also played bass PT, and the same age as the band, would drink with us, help setup, tear down, say stupid crap in our ear mixes during the show to make everyone laugh, etc..
Now for the smaller clubs/cover/rock scene, we can run our PA from the stage and it's no biggie. And for how little we're making starting out as a "new" band yet again, it's hard to cut in a guy for doing something we can do and it'll sound the exact same.
