• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Why don't bands have their own sound engineers?

Why don't bands have their "own" sound person?

  • They do their own sound.

    Votes: 40 26.5%

  • They don't need one as the venue always has someone.

    Votes: 29 19.2%

  • There's no-one available.

    Votes: 12 7.9%

  • They're too expensive.

    Votes: 93 61.6%

  • They're all incompetent.

    Votes: 18 11.9%
  • Total voters
    151
#21
Hey man,

I believe the question is not always right. My answer would be "Eeerrrr... they DO".
I'm lucky enough to play (besides my own, how to put it, less lucrative musical efforts) in 2 quite popular Hungarian alternative rock/pop bands (or whatever they call this style nowadays... the point is these bands do pretty well but don't play in arenas or anything).
Both of the bands have been using the same sound guy for about 5 years. He's like a band member and a friend for us. We're lucky with him as there aren't a lot of good pros around who are cool to hang out with at the same time.

And, even though Hungary only has a small and mostly quite crappy quality music industry, most of the working bands I know have their own sound guy. I believe this is mainly a problem for bands that don't turn a profit (yet), just like my small jazz quartet. But there we don't need a sound guy anyway, because the venues are so small we hardly need a PA :D
 
#22
The bands I work for don't have their own sound engineer as part of the band for a few reasons:

1. Rooms (that I play) with production supplied have already hired a production company. They pay that company to supply and run the sound and lights. These rooms have sound and light rigs that are more complex than the "pa in a box" kind of rig... the front of house is typically at least a 24x4x2 board, a rack of up to a dozen compressors and a few outboard effects, along with a completely separate mixer and power amp rack for monitor world. It would be a bit of a challenge for a tech who was "part of our band" to run a completely different rig in different rooms all the time and get a good mix happening right off the first downbeat (not to mention the fact that the production company would probably not be terribly comfortable with a stranger running their gear). On top of that, it's not hard for a good sound tech to get a permanent gig at one or two rooms where there's limited travel involved. That's much more appealing to most good, experienced techs.

2. When I've played venues that don't have supplied production but have the budget to pay for pro production, we hire a production company to bring in the sound and lights and the people to run it all.

3. The bands that I work with that play rooms where they bring a "pa in a box" (ie. powered mixer, a few small lights) don't get paid enough to make the gig worth it if we have to pay a sound guy as well. Too many mouths to feed from the limited funds.

4. The current "pa in a box" type of sound systems are pretty easy to set up and run. It's not rocket surgery ;-)
 
#23
I should add to my previous post that I noticed you're in Finland. I think it's very possible that your situation is quite different from what's happening in the circuit I'm playing in Canada, which is very likely to be quite different from other places in North America. Even within my geographical area, there are different circuits that have a completely different kind of arrangement vis-a-vis production.

It's simply not economically feasible for me and the people I know to bring a sound tech to the rooms that we play. In an ideal world, I'd love to work with the same sound tech at every gig. I've not been able to afford the luxury.
 
#27
fokof said:
No answer fit for me.
My answer would be ;
for those who don't have any , it's mainly because the bands are too cheap.
Click to expand...

Or we're on the bottom of the food chain. A bar band playing small clubs usually isn't making enough $ to add a sound person, so we learn to do it ourselves. If one of the bands I'm in starts getting a good number of $500+ gigs then I'll suggest adding a good sound person. IMHO a poor or mediocre sound person is worse then none at all.
 
#29
I have worked with the same sound guy for years and also worked with him for a 4 or 5 year stint during my teens and early 20's. He is a good friend, comes to every practice, Solders Cables and maintains the PA, helps load and unload and is busy taking care of the band and the Club owner in every way. I have no problem giving him a full cut. He puts in as much time as the rest of us. He goes out and promotes the band on nights we arent playing. He is as big a part of the band than anyone else in the band. He does key things with effects @ key moments during songs and I would hate to play a show without him. He has never missed a show. I have seen him sick enough to die and showed up to run sound. A good soundman can really help a band. #1 must make the CLUB OWNER feel the band is doing everything to help him MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE. After all the club owner is the BOSS. Our sound guy is a Good Guy and Good Friend.
 
#30
Hi.

Thanks again for the personal views on the subject.

I do realize and agree that the conditions vary from place to place. It is however hard to understand that if the sound engineer "scene" is as bad as some describe on other threads, no-one is willing to do anything about it.

Then again it seems to be the same bunch of people who are most vocal in "bad soundmen" discussions :).


It's good to see that some bands are more fortunate and do have their "own" sound person. One that's treated with respect and recognized as the important final link between the band and the audience.

It's also good to see that quite a few run their own sound. Not ideal, but if the performance is well rehearsed and the balance is good, a passable product will be delivered.

Regards
Sam
 
#31
To all the people not hiring their own sound guys because "the venue already has techs", consider this:

The point of having your own sound-guy is not "having a guy to run sound", but to "have a guy who knows your stuff". There´s a big difference.

A dedicated band sound-tech will compliment the band´s sound by providing correct effects (think tap delays matching the tempos etc.), riding levels to match the song, as well as knowing when to ride the levels for solos well before "solo bar 8" etc. House techs rarely can provide the aforementioned "extras" because they don´t know your material. They´ll have a mix that might suit your music, or not. The more complex your material is, the harder (actually, the more impossible) it gets for the house tech.

Having your own sound guy makes the extra 20% in getting your point and sound across. In places with bigger capacities this matters even more, many more people being impressed with your show (as opposed to many people leaving saying "that band sounded a bit bland...").

I´m fortunate to have two bands to do FOH for, who have thought things through, and decided that my input matters a lot, and thus, keep giving me work. Despite the obvious, cost.
 
#32
some of my gigs we hire a regular guy, some have soundmen provided, sometimes one of us does it from onstage, sometimes we have two soundmen, etc etc etc. every gig is different. but i see nothing wrong with expecting anyone who does it for us to do it to the best of their ability and with our best interests in mind. whether we pay or the venue pays, the soundman's getting paid.
 
#34
I think what it comes down to for a lot of bands is that a soundman generally does less work than the other members of the band, but demands a higher pay. Around here most venues pay a soundman as part of their operating costs and hiring your own just means you're paying out of your own pocket when there is already a guy being paid to do the work. If we could convince the bars to give us their soundman's cut and to tell him to stay home for the night then we could possibly afford to pay our own, but that isn't likely to happen.
 
#35
For us it's situational.

-The places with in house sound have someone running sound.
-At places without a PA but with a high enough guarantee we hire our guy who brings a small PA and runs it for a fair price.
-At private parties or "play for the door" places we just haul our own stuff and run it ourselves.
 
#36
I can't believe what our sound guy does for an equal cut! He's there early to every gig and moves a huge rig alone every weekend we play. We help him tear down, have it down to about 45 min. Probably takes him 3 times that alone to set up. We rarely take gigs that aren't two nights, so its usually only one setup and one tear down for two gigs, but still, he works hard, does a great job during the show, and its all his equipment. He gets a equal cut and deserves every penny.

He also gets an equal cut of at least two other bands, works every weekend, and doesn't have to make one phone call or bug one bar manager or promoter, or deal with all the politics involved in the internal and external workings of the band. He just waits for the gigs to be booked, then is automatically lined up, first come first serve. All he has to do is keep all his bands in the loop on his schedule. He ends up doing quite well.
 
#37
Just as a certain level of industry professionalism brings a Tour Manager, so it does an Engineer. Having staff that can help cut costs and bring clout to an artist is worth far more than his/her pay and per diem.

That being said, it's an expense and good help is hard to find - but any help that an artist/act can get to improve the experience and the product should really be welcomed and developed.

Management
Sound reinforcement
Promotion
Production

these are 3 of the most beneficial and most expensive aspects of pro level performance and artistry.

though touring the land in a Toyota Previa and a trailer during the summer with tents and an occasional hotel room would be ideal for a lot of people, if you aim high and bring the right friends, more opportunity can come your way.

best of luck, folks.
 
#38
jbalou02 said:
I can't believe what our sound guy does for an equal cut! He's there early to every gig and moves a huge rig alone every weekend we play. We help him tear down, have it down to about 45 min. Probably takes him 3 times that alone to set up. We rarely take gigs that aren't two nights, so its usually only one setup and one tear down for two gigs, but still, he works hard, does a great job during the show, and its all his equipment. He gets a equal cut and deserves every penny.
Click to expand...

That guy sounds like a keeper! I would gladly give a full cut to never have to mess with load-in or setting up lights and P.A. Plug-and-play gigs like you describe with him are pretty much a pipe dream around here, even for bands that hire their P.A. done. Treat that guy right, he's worth his weight in gold.
 
#39
baalroo said:
I think what it comes down to for a lot of bands is that a soundman generally does less work than the other members of the band, but demands a higher pay.
Click to expand...
listen, i'm always in line for a good soundman bashing, especially when i'm about to play a venue tonight where i got into a 10 minute argument with the soundman last year, but that's just plain not true. at my gigs where we rent pa, the soundman is always the first one there and the last to leave. the only time where that may even be remotely true is a place where the pa is permanently installed. but even then, the soundman has to run wires, hook up mics and monitors, then try to give everyone what they want in their monitors and mix the band. and they have to troubleshoot the pa when things go wrong.

so yes, while they do get to sit in a chair and twiddle knobs for the duration of the gig, let's not paint an unrealistic picture. being a soundman is a hard job, especially if they supply the pa. and most are worth every penny they make, and a small handful should make way more.
 
#40
JimmyM said:
listen, i'm always in line for a good soundman bashing, especially when i'm about to play a venue tonight where i got into a 10 minute argument with the soundman last year, but that's just plain not true. at my gigs where we rent pa, the soundman is always the first one there and the last to leave. the only time where that may even be remotely true is a place where the pa is permanently installed. but even then, the soundman has to run wires, hook up mics and monitors, then try to give everyone what they want in their monitors and mix the band. and they have to troubleshoot the pa when things go wrong.

so yes, while they do get to sit in a chair and twiddle knobs for the duration of the gig, let's not paint an unrealistic picture. being a soundman is a hard job, especially if they supply the pa. and most are worth every penny they make, and a small handful should make way more.
Click to expand...

well, i wasn't trying to "bash" sound guys at all, it just seems to me that at the weekend warrior/local gig level they don't have to do anything that the rest of the band members don't have to do either. They lug gear around, so do we. They have to run wires and get their gear hooked up, so do we. They have to troubleshoot their gear when something goes wrong, so do we. They have to understand their craft in order for the band to sound good, so do we.

on the other hand, most sound guys don't have to put in hours of practice every week to make sure and "have it right" at the gigs, nor do they have to "put on a show" for an audience.

i agree that once you reach a certain point as a band that a sound guy is probably indispensable. OTOH, for most average bands playing weekend gigs at the local watering holes is it just not fiscally viable, and in THOSE cases I really firmly believe that a soundguy isn't doing any more work than the band members and probably doesn't "deserve" the larger cut of the dough that they generally demand.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back