Why don't I like my Markbass LM III?

[ksandvik]

Been using Markbass CMP112 combo for 2 years now for all my Gospel Shows and now looking to add a NY112 cab to it. I had try all different cabs with my Markbass F1 head and it now using it with two GK 112 cabs for my church rig.

It sometime take a while to find the right match for what you're looking for sound wise. Keep trying out those amps at GC until your ears say that the one. I try to go to where I can hear a amp live; like a club or out door show.

I used a Little Mark II with a 15" cab (forgot the brand) at a local jam last week and I didn't like that tone combination at all. Mostly a boomy sound with no clarity. So the cab selection is important with most amps.

PS: The cool thing here in the Bay area are all the jams where you could test all kinds of bass gear in 'live' situations.

 

[jaibeau]

With Markbass gear (or any gear for that matter) it's never a bad idea to dial tone back. My favorite setting is (by o'clock):

bass: 11-12
lm: 11
hm: 10-11
treble: 11

Anything higher than that sounds too honky to me, but down there it sounds very tubey, clean, and musical.

+1

Alot of fokes can't subtract, they feel the need to start turning up to get tone-

 

[rage941]

I assume you used one or the other (not both) as they have different functionality.

Like I said I tried them every which way - meaning individually and together, up down and all around. I think I settled on the VLE at like 10-11 and the VPF at like 1-2

 

[Joe Louvar]

I didn't read the whole thread - only this post.

All I could find was 5/5 star reviews for all markbass gear. I ordered an LM III without batting an eye. I got it home and tried it with my mexican P bass through my Ampeg SVT 4x10 cab and could not get a sound I liked. ESPECIALLY with the VLE and VPF knobs turned all the way down...it sounded like I was in a tin can. Messing with those helped, but I could only get it with too much lows. I don't get it and I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I also went to guitar center and tried the 2x10 combo and tried the LM III through the 2x10 traveler cab and could not get a good sound with various basses. I also tried another more expensive markbass head that they had there, forget which, and I still didn't like it. All in all I only played through 10" speakers, do you think that could have something to do with it? What am I doing wrong? I doubt I could have that much of a difference of what sounds good than 99.9% of other bassists...
By the way I play rock and roll and I only use a pick.

I'm bummed; I had two 2x10 HLF cabs lined up for $700. It was going to be a perfect set up since I really wanted light weight stuff, and I'd have the option of using 2x10 or 4x10 depending on the gig.

I want to order all Eden stuff, but now I'm scared since there aren't any local for me to try out.

I’m sorry to read this happened. I hate it when that happens - but it sometimes it does. And sometimes it takes a long time to find just the right combination of equipment to the perfect tone. I suggest realizing early that this particular combination doesn’t tickle your fancy - dump it and start searching all over again. I know it sucks eggs - but sometimes that’s just how it is. Good luck and best wishes.

 

[georgestrings]

First thing I'd do is get rid of that cab. Nothing sounds good to me going through 410hlf. Not even Ampeg SVT VR. Always too boomy, bassy and muddy. Too scooped.

To each their own, I guess - because I always liked that cab...


- georgestrings

 

[rage941]

That's quite generous! Unfortunately I live Florida though.



Yeah I read that about the wattage, and with them being 8ohm it'd be difficult to use just one right, since most amps don't put that much power into 8? If I got two, or maybe one plus something with better highs, wouldn't I be fine with something that can give a lot of power into 4 ohms?

Like I said I played though two Acmes with the WT400 and really liked it, I didn't feel like it was missing anything tone wise; volume wise I'm not sure how it sounded in the crowd, but it was loud enough for me since I was standing in front of it. Do you think just one acme 2x10 for a gig would not work?



Regarding Orange: I don't even know where to try out an Orange head. I don't think bass central has them and I know guitar center and Sam ash don't.

So I guess I just like a different style than everyone that digs markbass stuff. I guess I should have found out what type of music the people reviewing it were into before buying it. I guess I need to stay away from the amps like this and the shuttle that just give a transparent voicing of the bass.


Now since I realize I need to find out WHY people like certain amps, and not just the fact that they DO, what do you guys think of Eden? I know it's good quality and a lot of people like it, so don't tell me that. Tell me why you like it and what's it good for. I know I liked the wt400 that one night, but I'm not sure if it was because of the head or the Acme cabs. Locally there is a WT 800 with a 2x10 and 1x15. I could either take the whole rig and just use the 2x10 for smaller gigs and add the 1x15 for larger, or I could just take the head since it has 880W bridged into 8 ohms and seek out the acme cab.
There is also a WT600 (with the option of a D410XLT with it) for sale which would be 600 bridged into 8 ohms, for the Acme.

Okay now I'm leaning towards it being the head. I watched this demo video and it's pretty much what I heard that night. If you look at the videos of myself I posted on page two, you can even hear it in that crappy quality video. When I hear it the word slinky comes to mind...lol
David eden Wt-300 Demo - YouTube

So I should get an eden head? Or keep the markbass and get the eden wtdi?

 

[guy n. cognito]

I've tried the LMIII twice now, and have found that, no matter what cab, it sounded like someone had thrown a blanket over my rig.

 

[Dbassmon]

A couple of things about Markbass that I have found with my rig. First, what you hear, is not what the audience hears. I find that I have to turn down the bass and mid bass a little. This is with my Markbass 210 cab. I assume a 4x10 even more. An earlier post made this point and I agree.

What I hear as sort of middy is killing 10 feet in front of the band. Remember bass waves are long and you can not really hear a fundamental correctly if you are close to your cab. While you may think that you are not hearing fullness, may not be the case in front of the bandstand.

Markbass stuff is clean, the VPE allows you to scoop for modern tones, VLE allows to roll off top and warm up your classic Pbass tones.

I think finding the right cabinet is critical with this rig, I think record yourself live with the band to hear exactly what the amp sounds like in a mix. If you are looking for tube grit and compression, peddles may be a solution.

One last thing, I use my MarkBass LMIII with a 4ohm cab. It screams!

 

[pacojas]

LMIII's are very excellent medium powered amps, IME! users should be able to dial them in with almost any cab, IMHO! YMMV!

 

[Craig_S]

I can understand what the OP is saying. MarkBass amps have a brutally honest sound to them. It takes some getting used to.

I like my SA450/104HF rig a lot. It sounds especially good with a band, set flat. Without a band, I use the VPF to cut the mids back a bit.

 

[sratas]

First thing I'd do is get rid of that cab. Nothing sounds good to me going through 410hlf. Not even Ampeg SVT VR. Always too boomy, bassy and muddy. Too scooped.

maybe he could be right. I used to own and gig a SA450 + HLF. I'm proudly italian, so, I strongly wanted to love this rig but finally sold it. It was well built, high-quality "hi-fi" tone, reasonably priced and so on, but I never liked the voicing. IMO the critical point, to me and my personal tastes, was the cab. The hlf (with the aid of the Markbass amp, obviously) produced massive low-mids and glassy, transparent zing up top, and IMO lacked to represent the clear midrange of the amp. Also farted pretty quicky when digging in at livingroom volumes. I hated that clicky cold ear splitting super high end zing coming from the custom horn...
I was relatively young to bass, so I followed the hype and bought it without a good return policy, mistake.
This is the advice: testing gear at GC is NOT the same thing as with your band in your rehearsal room, but the next time test as much gear you can before taking it home, with a good return policy.
I agree with most that if you need a warm&fat tube-like tone or an overdriven tone the Markbass is not for you. Markbass amps are designed to avoid any kind of pushed sound, except for the "rocker" head, that is capable of some dirt (but I suggest another brand cab, clipped tones can be uotrageously annoying trough the MB compression driver & horn, maybe you should try a tweeterless cab?)).

 

[KJung]

I've tried the LMIII twice now, and have found that, no matter what cab, it sounded like someone had thrown a blanket over my rig.

I could never figure this one out. So many slappers, gospel guys, etc. using these heads. Very even through the upper mid, and wonderful extended treble extension.

That being said, the LMII/III does not have the upper mid bump of some heads (GK, Genz), so I guess if you were looking for a lot of upper midrange brightness, these heads would sound a bit dull to some.

Virtually all my Markbass clips on my Youtube channel are recorded with the bass and head 'flat' (i.e., neutral EQ with filters off, and no treble boost on the bass preamp). If anything, I consider my tone 'bright', but I guess we all hear things differently.

 

[okcrum]

If you are looking for lightweight, you won't find it with the Eden stuff particularly when it comes to cabs. I would spend some more time with the LMIII, I bet your sound is in there, it's a pretty versatile unit.

You must have missed the Eden WTX stuff. Have you looked at the Eden product line in the last year?

 

[ksandvik]

A couple of things about Markbass that I have found with my rig. First, what you hear, is not what the audience hears. I find that I have to turn down the bass and mid bass a little. This is with my Markbass 210 cab. I assume a 4x10 even more. An earlier post made this point and I agree.

What I hear as sort of middy is killing 10 feet in front of the band. Remember bass waves are long and you can not really hear a fundamental correctly if you are close to your cab. While you may think that you are not hearing fullness, may not be the case in front of the bandstand.

Markbass stuff is clean, the VPE allows you to scoop for modern tones, VLE allows to roll off top and warm up your classic Pbass tones.

I think finding the right cabinet is critical with this rig, I think record yourself live with the band to hear exactly what the amp sounds like in a mix. If you are looking for tube grit and compression, peddles may be a solution.

One last thing, I use my MarkBass LMIII with a 4ohm cab. It screams!

I agree with this analysis. MarkBass gear is excellent if you really want to hear what your bass sounds like. Then the cab selection is important. And finally for grit/dirt you need pedals. Means the setup is super-flexible.

Now, if I would play rock 100% of the time in a band I would invest in GK or Ampeg gear. But I need flexibility as a substitute bass player as I never know what kind of gig or band I have to jump in and fit in.

 

[bigbottomend]

I disagree, I played a gig last night with a Markbass 2x10 and head, not sure what head. One of those little ones with yellow on it. Horrible sound, my P never sounded so bad. It is given that i never had the chance to mess around with the settings much, but since i've played literally 100's of amps over the years, that was not a honest representation of what my bass sounds like.

 

[KJung]

I disagree, I played a gig last night with a Markbass 2x10 and head, not sure what head. One of those little ones with yellow on it. Horrible sound, my P never sounded so bad. It is given that i never had the chance to mess around with the settings much, but since i've played literally 100's of amps over the years, that was not a honest representation of what my bass sounds like.

My guess is, like many who are not familiar with the amp, you most likely had the two filters engaged (i.e., thinking noon was 'flat'). This results in a muddy mess.

 

[sratas]

I've tried the LMIII twice now, and have found that, no matter what cab, it sounded like someone had thrown a blanket over my rig.

Sincerely, hard to think the Markbass heads as muffled sounding. The tone is transparent to death, plain "flat", brilliant, uncompressed (until you hit the poweramp stage pretty hard), open, airy. So "clear" that I did not not like it! My personal taste tells warmer tones (Thunderfunk and streamliner), but the picture, for what I remember, is this one...wonderful when we figure out the way sounds can be perceived in different ways from different musicians (this is the former reason that justifies so many tonal options in the market). IMO & IME as always

 

[KJung]

Sincerely, hard to think the Markbass heads as muffled sounding. The tone is transparent to death, plain "flat", brilliant, uncompressed (until you hit the poweramp stage pretty hard), open, airy. So "clear" that I did not not like it! My personal taste tells warmer tones (Thunderfunk and streamliner), but the picture, for what I remember, is this one...wonderful when we figure out the way sounds can be perceived in different ways from different musicians (this is the former reason that justifies so many tonal options in the market). IMO & IME as always

+1 I remember when the LMII came out, quite a few of us were playing the very nice Thunderfunk550b. When we A/B'd the two, the LMII had much of the warmth of the Thunderfunk, but had much more bass extension, and WAY more treble extension, and more absolute volume capability before compressing, at half the size, weight and cost. Kind of like a blanket coming off the cab (although, as you say, that 'blanket' of mid warmth from the Thunderfunk sounds darn good, if that is your thing). However, with the VLE and a bit of cut on the bass control, you could get VERY close to the 'flat' Thunderfunk tone.

The LMII was quite a 'game changer' when it was introduced. Low cost, VERY good quality, and really was the amp that allowed a lot of players to shed a LOT of weight with no other compromise, without spending 'Walter Woods' dollars. That the LMIII is just a slight tweak of the LMII and still selling strong is quite an amazing thing.

That being said, again, if you like a lot of tubey grind or growl, the very clean, very 'flat and even' tone of most Markbass heads would not be for you.

 

[KJung]

Sincerely, hard to think the Markbass heads as muffled sounding. The tone is transparent to death, plain "flat", brilliant, uncompressed (until you hit the poweramp stage pretty hard), open, airy. So "clear" that I did not not like it! My personal taste tells warmer tones (Thunderfunk and streamliner), but the picture, for what I remember, is this one...wonderful when we figure out the way sounds can be perceived in different ways from different musicians (this is the former reason that justifies so many tonal options in the market). IMO & IME as always

To your point, in case it is helpful to those perusing this thread, here is a clip I did a while back comparing the LMII to the F1 (which is pretty identical to comparing the newer LMIII to the newer F500, since those heads sound the same, but just have more features than the respective earlier models).

If you have decent phones or a good playback system, you can hear the difference in the general voicing of the warmer, fatter LMII/III, and the slightly brighter, punchier F1/F500.

Of course, my 70's style J with stainless steel roundwounds is not the OP's thing, but it should at least put to reast the idea that these heads are in any way 'muffled'.

Markbass LMII and F1 powering the Bergantino AE410 with the Alleva-Coppolo LM5 - YouTube

I hadn't seen this clip in a while. I forgot that my old buddy Twix the cat made a guest appearance on the video. He's still hanging in there, but is quite old now and mostly sleeps!

 

[sratas]

To your point, in case it is helpful to those perusing this thread, here is a clip I did a while back comparing the LMII to the F1 (which is pretty identical to comparing the newer LMIII to the newer F500, since those heads sound the same, but just have more features than the respective earlier models).

If you have decent phones or a good playback system, you can hear the difference in the general voicing of the warmer, fatter LMII/III, and the slightly brighter, punchier F1/F500.


Of course, my 70's style J with stainless steel roundwounds is not the OP's thing, but it should at least put to reast the idea that these heads are in any way 'muffled'.

Markbass LMII and F1 powering the Bergantino AE410 with the Alleva-Coppolo LM5 - YouTube

I hadn't seen this clip in a while. I forgot that my old buddy Twix the cat made a guest appearance on the video. He's still hanging in there, but is quite old now and mostly sleeps!

good advice, good representation of the basic Markbass sound (I have already seen all your videos, by the way, waiting for others).