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why get a fretless

If you've just started out as your sig suggests, I'd wait for a while before you get into fretless personally. Fretless is wonderful, a really different instrument, which takes quite a bit of getting used to and a good ear, which tends only to develop with playing. I played a fretless for the first time when I'd been playing guitar for about 8 years and bass for a year and I found it very difficult and frustrating (and that was with fret lines) but enjoyed the sound and feel. Then I defretted a bass about 12 years later, and I love it.

Get going on fretted, then get yourself a fretless, IMO/IME. But, the contrary view (which I'm sure others will say better than me) is that loads of people learn on fretless instruments (violinists for example), and the transition from fretless to fretted is much easier than from fretted to fretless. If you can play fretless, you can play fretted. If you can play fretted, you can't necessarily play fretless...

Steve
 
Their intended purpose is to sound and play slightly differently than the fretted ones. they are not harder to play, as long as you pay attention. They are harder for thrashing punks and drunks to play. :) Just try one out and see if it sounds or feels appealing to you. Not a big deal.
 
Hi,
I started out playing bass little less than 10 years ago and after a couple of years switched to guitar. About a year ago I decided to play bass again (initially just for fun). I got my hands on my old bass (epiphone eb0) und decided to give it a complete makeover which included a fretless conversion. you can have a look at http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7611853#post7611853. Now I am really drawn into that whole fretless stuff, when I play my roundwounded stringed PJ bass I really think "oh what a clanky sound, where's the bass" ;)
 
but i'm just curious to know what they are for? a bit more descriptive that "different" what do they do that a fretted can't or visa versa?

I kind of want to invent new scales with 18 notes to the octave... which is why i want no frets to get in the way of it... but i'm pretty sure that's not their intended purpose?

All i can think of that they do is that they do much smoother slides? but it seems there should be more to them than just that?

I'm just curious, i know i should slow down a bit... i got a bass and a guitar within a couple of months of each other... this could be a very severe case of "gear aqusition syndrome" (as you call it) at this rate... i'll need a bigger appartment to fit it all in...
 
Slow down is right. :) I say this not to insult, but to inform: stop. Breathe. Think about it.

You make notes on any stringed instrument by shortening the string with your finger. Frets are a way to shorten the string at exact intervals without having to look or be precise in your actions. All a fretless neck is, is a stringed instrument with no "helpers" for shortening the string at exact intervals. You have to provide the exactness yourself, by practice. That's it. End of story. No other "special purpose".

An unlined fretless is a good way to develop alternate scales. You can play a literally infinite range of different microtunings on a fretless. It's all up to how you develop your skills at fingering those specific intervals.
 
I think you really need to sit down and listen to a few players... Pastorius, Mick Karn (this track...)

and some others... Paul Chambers (upright bass) on 'Kind of Blue' by Miles Davis. The best jazz record ever IMO.

Then you'll get some insight into what it's all about.
 
In my experience, their "purpose" is to sound completely different from a fretted bass. If you play them right, they have this vocal quality that is hard to get on a fretted bass and they can also sound very upright-ish as well. If I recall correctly, Fender started mass-producing fretless P basses in the 70s (which is not to say that fretlesses didn't exist before) because some bass players wanted electric basses that sounded closer to an upright bass.

A (not so great) guitar player I played with a while ago put it into words like this: "a fretless bass is a bass that sounds kind of like a cello". This isn't the best way of putting it into words but it may be an okay starting point for someone who has never heard one.
 
Frets are a way to shorten the string at exact intervals without having to look or be precise in your actions. All a fretless neck is, is a stringed instrument with no "helpers" for shortening the string at exact intervals. You have to provide the exactness yourself, by practice. That's it. End of story. No other "special purpose".

I think i'm missing something here? it seems that just makes it harder to play? but what's the benefit you get from that extra effort? Can you try to describe it?

At the moment i'm hard pressed to tell a bass from a sythesiser, so i think i'd miss the point just trying to compare a track with a fretted to a track with a fretless, too many other factors to listen out for like playing style and the tune itself etc.

Can a couple of you try to put it into words so i know what sort of things i'm listening for?
 
it was easy for me to get used to playing (lined) frettless because when i got my first bass there would be the most annoying fret buzz unless i played exactly on the fretts so besides practicing more to get better inotation it was a smooth transition
 
I think i'm missing something here? it seems that just makes it harder to play? but what's the benefit you get from that extra effort? Can you try to describe it?

well there are a couple of things, soundwise as well as playing-wise.
you can play in way you cannot on a fretted bass. The obvious thing here is sliding, then you have classical ("horizontal" vibrato) opposed to the "bluesy" e-guitar-like vibrato, which according to (I think) Jack Bruce is just a way to try to emulate real vibrato as well as more flashy stuff like slide harmonics (listen to tony franklin and pino palladino).
Soundwise the whole timbre of the instrument is different to that of a fretted bass. To my ear it's more bassier and "low-middier" than a fretted bass, but less articulate in the higher register. But of course that's only tentatively and compares the same bass with/out frets.
and I do not think fretless bass is just for jazz: blues, classical rock (as long as it doesn't get to haevy), indie work well for my taste. But there are even some metal bassists playing fretless, which is however a unconvenient choice and you probably would have to work very hard on your playing to pull that of.
 
I think i'm missing something here? it seems that just makes it harder to play? but what's the benefit you get from that extra effort? Can you try to describe it?


There are various reasons why people pick up a fretless.

I play fretless not per sé for the fretless sound.
I play metal, and fast from time to time. Fretless feels the most comfortable me. Keep in mind, after years of practice.
My fretless sounds close to fretted, not much mwah.

IMO it's not that much harder to play. Because fretless is my main thing, I have more problems when I pick up a fretted occasionally. Then I make often beginner mistakes such as fretbuzz.

I just love the feel and possibilities of a fretless.

It's really a personal thing.

If you want to try it, find a cheap one and/or used. Then you can decide for yourself what use you can get out of it, and if it will fit you.
You have to set your mind to it.
 
but i'm just curious to know what they are for? a bit more descriptive that "different" what do they do that a fretted can't or visa versa?

I kind of want to invent new scales with 18 notes to the octave... which is why i want no frets to get in the way of it... but i'm pretty sure that's not their intended purpose?

Just to give a quick background, I played fretted bass for about 4 years mostly on Fender Jazz Basses, before trying out and buying a Warwick Corvette Fretless. I've been playing both fretted and fretless about 6 years since then.

First of all, to respond to what you said earlier, you definitely don't want to invent new scales with 18 notes to the octave (unless you're playing middle eastern music or something) You'll just sound like you're playing out of tune, which is always bad. You should stick to playing notes that are in the normal western chromatic scale. Maybe, foray into quarter steps, etc. when you become more experienced and are ready to experiment, but I haven't had any success with that personally.

The first thing to note is that you need to be very precise when fingering notes. Just a little bit off the mark and you'll sound pretty bad. You should use an accurate chromatic tuner to practice making sure your notes are exactly in tune when you practice. Some fretboards come with lines to guide you whilst others have only the dots on the top. I would recommend an unlined fretboard, because you don't want to become dependent on your sight to look for notes, you need to train your ear. The top dots are a useful reference for when you have to change hand positions quickly, but other than that, I rarely look at them. Also, you'll just look cooler and more competent with an unlined fretboard. :cool:

In terms of the differences, A fretless bass tends to give off a warmer, "woodier" sound when playing than a fretted. This is due to the fact that the string is pressed against the wood fingerboard and your finger to make a note rather than a metal fret. It sounds closer to an upright bass, but still not quite there. The only way to get that sound is from an upright! Some players, myself included have found that after getting used to the fretless, you can actually play FASTER. You don't have to worry about frets, so you can make the action lower and not worry about buzzing. Some people find it difficult to learn, while others can pick it up almost immediately and play.

Some techniques are different as well. String bends have virtually no effect, so you have to slide your finger slightly up the neck while fingering a note to achieve the same effect instead. You can also make better use of vibrato, where you rapidly move your finger a slight distance back and forth. Watch a video of a violinist to see what I mean. Other than that, slides are definitely smoother, and I use them much more often when playing fretless.

In terms of when it can be used, it's all up to you. I've personally found the sound to be pretty much worthless for classic rock, blues rock, hard rock etc. but very useful for Jazz, Jazz Fusion, Funk, etc. or when you want to get an upright-like sound without dragging one of those behemoths around.

So in conclusion, I recommend you gain some experience with the fretted bass before you buy a fretless. Definitely try some out at the store in the mean time though. When you are ready to step up to the fretless, make sure you use flatwound strings. Round wounds will tear up your fretboard. I HIGHLY recommend Tomastik-Infield JF 344 flatwound strings. They are very expensive, but they will last forever, and the tone is unbeatable in my opinion. Hope this helps you out and good luck! :bassist:
 
Hmm, I just always put flatwounds on because I heard that somewhere. I guess I shouldn't have said that because I don't have direct experience with roundwounds on a fretless. I think it also depends on your fingerboard wood, though. I would think that some woods can withstand the additional abrasive abuse of roundwounds while others cannot. I personally choose not to risk it because I really like playing flatwounds anyway, but maybe I'll experiment in the future. I know Jaco used roundwounds, but then again, he didn't exactly care for his bass very well.
 
Actually fretless basses can be great for rock... you just gotta play so fast that noone can tell that you're out of tune. :p

Also, I don't know what it is but when I'm practicing on a fretless unplugged I beat myself up over just how awefully out of tune it sounds, but when plugged in those issues seem to go away and all the notes sound more in tune. :eyebrow:
 
Actually fretless basses can be great for rock... you just gotta play so fast that noone can tell that you're out of tune. :p

Also, I don't know what it is but when I'm practicing on a fretless unplugged I beat myself up over just how awefully out of tune it sounds, but when plugged in those issues seem to go away and all the notes sound more in tune. :eyebrow:

Also, fretless is great for metal IME. :D
I modded my Tony Franklin so it sounds bright, sharp and heavy. No mellow mwah-ing. :smug:


What amp are you using. :)
It seems I need one of those. ;)
 
I play a fretless "Tune" bass (bass maniac) with a pezio crystal bridge pick up. This bass has a very warm almost acoustic sound to it. I have used it for rock, and acoustic styles, but have also used it playing electronic jambient, which is especially usefull because when you learn how to use your ears and adjust fingerings to stay in tune, is especially usefull when playing with electronic musicians whom not always staying in a tuning because of things like speeding up slowing down records, extreem oscillations, etc.
As an electric fretless held sideways as opposed to upright, you can use most of the same techniques applied to fretted. AGAIN you MUST develope your ear. MUST!!! or it will sound like crap. My first bass was fretted cheepo. But I learned the most on my fretless, watching the greats, and even upright players (sometimes when I am bored I sit and practice with my fretless upright)
Between a synth and bass....not sure where that question was going, but with good efx and even MIDI clocked efx in you can really create many unique "synth" like sounds, including what I have found in DUB STEP music, the "wobbly bass" sound, which is really just a LFO and/or wah type pedal applied to just about any type of fuzz or distortion syth stomp boxes...or sub octavers. With a more classic metalzone stomp pedal I can really get a tight metal sound. though if you are looking to do chords other than your typical power chords, you will need to tweak your EQ so it doesnt sound like bass end crap...as pretty much with any bass.
A good amp and reverb/delay unit is pretty much essential here unless you really like that clean dry acoustic sound.
One note on technique, you will have to adjust your finger placement to place it nearer to where the fret would normally lay, as per say if you place your finger what would normally be between a fret you will be flat of your intented tone. This is because on a fretless there is no exactness which would be normally provided by a fret...Learn to use your ears. Also I have found there is a bit of a difference in the sustain you can get from a fretless opposed to a fretted I feel due to the fact you have a fat fleshy finger holding the string down instead of nice metal string to metal frets, but this again can be minimized with good finger strength and efx processors...but you will find probably part of that fretless sound you are looking for.
Tuning...use a tuner or learn harmonic tuning.
if you already have a fretted bass, you can try practicing some riffs on your fretted then switch to fretless to help you "hear" what it is in your head first, I have found this can help bridge the gap when in the initial learning curve.
I use flat wound on most of my basses as I dont like all the noise generated with round wounds (also which dig in to your nice ebony fretboard...except on my strictly rock bass and 12 string bass. Rounds have a sharper brighter punchiness to them IMO/IME.
hope this helps. Go watch listen to some of the greats, mingus, jacko, claypool, laswell...

Found this link...as I dont have a picture handy...I bought mine just like this with the reflective pearl paint in Yokosuka Japan while stationed there in '93:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TUNE-MANIAC-B...7?IMSfp=TL090617188004r26386#ebayphotohosting