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Why have a nice rig just to be run direct?

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#261
Downunderwonder said:
From what I gather, at the lower end of the vaguely successful foodchain most of us have plenty of rig to cover the room for volume but not very good dispersion. If you want to gain the dispersion of the PA you have to lose the stage volume.

Still waiting for the "real sound guys" in this thread to give reasons for rejecting mic'ing. Being jaded about the potential of a cab sound isn't a good one.
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well one reason is the more open mics onstage the less potential gain is available before feedback.Link Removed
 
#265

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#266
mancefine said:
I'm sure this has been covered countless times on TB, but it happened to me this past Saturday and got me thinking.
Like most bassists, I spend a ton of money on my rig, amps and cabs in particular. My main rig is a Spector Euro 4 LX through a pedal board, into an Orange TB1000 into an Orange OBC 410 and OBC 115.

I live in Austin, so most of the venues have a good sound system, and I am very fortunate to be mic'd most of the time. However, at a gig Saturday the sound man was adoment about running me direct. I begged him to even use an sm57 on my rig (not my first choice, but they definitely work for bass), as we are a 3 piece so if the venue doens't have a bass specific mic, they usually have at least an extra 57 for a second guitar. He explained to me that the subs were under the stage, so mic'ing my cab would be bad because it would somehow make my tone pretty inaudible. I gave in and said OK. Bear in mind I'm no sound guy, but my thought process is that I dial in a tone on my bass and head based on the sound that comes out of my cabinets. My concern is that when you isolate one thing without the other (in other words taking a direct signal from a DI box before the bass goes into the head, or even taking a DI from the head itself leaves out a major variable used to dial in the sound: The cabs, and possibly the head too).

After the show, the sound guy told me how treble heavy my tone was, and that it sounded muffled, so he had to dial my highs back a ton. I knew this, as Spectors have that very distinctive, treble and mid heavy tone, especially by themselves, so I always compensate for that by cutting the treble on my Orange head and get my overall sound from a combination of the bass, head and cabs. It makes for an even balance. It bummed me out to know that all of the stuff I thought the audience was hearing me do was probably not even audible. I guess it just makes me think that when a sound guy runs me direct it basically turns my expensive Orange cabinets into overpriced stage monitors.

So now that I've written a novel, my question is what do you guys do to compensate and prepare for situations like this? My first inclination is to buy a beta 52 and when a soundman asks me where my DI is to point to the mic. But if I run into an issue like that again, is there a specific Mic I can use that is good for capturing live bass tone, or should I invest in an EQable DI? It just really seems odd to spend all that money on getting a good bass tone with your entire rig to have a sound guy only use part of the equation when it matters most (when people here it). Thanks guys!
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If the mix is good on stage and we all sound good together thats all thats important to me anymore. I know the sound coming out of the subs isn't gonna be exactly the way i like it but if everyone is digging it onstage then ok by me...
 
#268
I've pretty much given up the battle and stopped using Ric-O-Sound into my 2 channel amp because it required mic'ing my cab. I just got tired of trying to explain why I actually had to have a mic or else only half of my sound would make it to FOH. Usually by that point in the conversation, the sound guy realizes my amp is almost 40 years old and has no XLR out on the back, much to his annoyance. It's too bad really, because I I love the sound of different EQ settings and different dirt pedals on each pickup.
 
#269
jj4001 said:
I've pretty much given up the battle and stopped using Ric-O-Sound into my 2 channel amp because it required mic'ing my cab. I just got tired of trying to explain why I actually had to have a mic or else only half of my sound would make it to FOH. Usually by that point in the conversation, the sound guy realizes my amp is almost 40 years old and has no XLR out on the back, much to his annoyance. It's too bad really, because I I love the sound of different EQ settings and different dirt pedals on each pickup.
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Get your own mic, have it ready to go with an enthusiastic smile and quietly spoken entreat to give it a go. Problem solved.
 
#274
Reading through this thread has reminded me of a few frustrating incidents over the years. It makes me glad that for 95% of the gigs I do nowadays the only thing going into the PA is vocals, I use my amp to carry the room. Makes life much simpler.
 
#276
Your TB alter ego suggests suggests a tendency to flashover into a cynic in person. Such is the internet. Maybe you are always sweet as pie. I trust your good intentions here, even if the ampeg support gets a little weird for someone not on the payroll.
 
#279
I have been following this thread for a few days and while I cannot comment on a lot of it, because I am not in the same sort of situations many of you are, a couple of things occur to me. If you are not in a position where the guy tasked with running live sound for you understands that he works for you ( and this is also assuming you are not a person who lacks understanding of live sound, yet insists on having your own way) and is willing to mic/DI you per your request, the logical solution is to either get into a better band, play in better clubs or hire your own sound engineer.

Of course what do I know.
 
#280
David Hayes said:
I have been following this thread for a few days and while I cannot comment on a lot of it, because I am not in the same sort of situations many of you are, a couple of things occur to me. If you are not in a position where the guy tasked with running live sound for you understands that he works for you ( and this is also assuming you are not a person who lacks understanding of live sound, yet insists on having your own way) and is willing to mic/DI you per your request, the logical solution is to either get into a better band, play in better clubs or hire your own sound engineer.

Of course what do I know.
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This. I havn't had a lousy soundman experience in years. We mix ourselves from stage on most of our gigs so if it sucks it is my fault. On the few gigs we play with PA support the sound companies are total pro. We are playing through PA systems that will be used later in the day for bands that have sold millions of albums in there career.
 
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