get back to the basics the fundamentals. I have found that as we progress as musicians we for get to keep our fundamentals strong, so ya we can do more but we are not doing it right. get back to proper technique and playing with a Metronome, or hook up with a drummer and focus on just locking in on the grove and jamming some basic stuff. this will get you back to where you want my man.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Why have my rhythm been declining?
- Thread starter Jalen Fuller
- Start date
For starters, at least, I think you might not need to look any further than this. Sleep deprivation has strong adverse effects on concentration, attention, and physical agility, which might completely (or at least partially) explain the problem you're having with your playing.
Do you have any ideas about why you're having so much trouble sleeping recently? We're obviously not trained clinicians, but since most people have sleeping problems from time to time some of us might be able to offer some suggestions based on our own experience.
Work on both the fingers and the pick, you don't have to choose. There are many good ways of using a metronome, and playing along with recorded music which can help. I think adding a percussion instrument is also a great idea for improving your feel, and your ear. Technique is important, and will come with practice. But for me being able the hear the rhythms is my weak spot, especially with styles / artists I don't know. Once I can listen, and hear what's really being played, I can add it to my rhythm vocabulary, with a little bit of practice. But until I can hear it properly, all the practice in the world doesn't help.
The fact that you are catching the irregularities in you timing is a great sign. That means that you are conscious of a deficit and can work on improving it. I have more problems with players who have no clue that there are troubles in the toolbox.
For example, my partner and I recently stopped by to listen to a few minutes of a performer who was coming through town (from the car, the PA was sufficient to avoid humans thank god, because the "tour" took them through every southern hotspot state). We'll call them The Plague Rats. I had told my partner that I was approached for a gig a few years back to add some bass to fill things out. My offer of a 30 minute practice to familiarize and tighten up was declined and the performer tacitly rescinded the offer through avoidance thereafter. I never did catch that gig and was a bit bummed about it, but nowhere near heartbroken. What I heard from the stage recently was a two person acoustic guitar and vocal performance, loping and out of time, also pretty pitchy. One player struggling to catch-up and about stopping to compensate for the timing issues. One player blithely laying out an affected rhythm. Bullet dodged. Some folks fare better solo that with a band. Lightnin' Hopkins ran into this with his arbitrary 12-13 bar blues w/inconsistently added beats. Junior Kimbrough could keep up, but note that his north Mississippi sound is pretty much a one chord drone track with arbitrary changes here and there.
What I'm getting at here is that you have enough innate rhythm to recognize inconsistencies. You have good rhythm, it is just not yet fully integrated into you playing yet. Good ear, my friend. Keep at it if that's what you want.
For example, my partner and I recently stopped by to listen to a few minutes of a performer who was coming through town (from the car, the PA was sufficient to avoid humans thank god, because the "tour" took them through every southern hotspot state). We'll call them The Plague Rats. I had told my partner that I was approached for a gig a few years back to add some bass to fill things out. My offer of a 30 minute practice to familiarize and tighten up was declined and the performer tacitly rescinded the offer through avoidance thereafter. I never did catch that gig and was a bit bummed about it, but nowhere near heartbroken. What I heard from the stage recently was a two person acoustic guitar and vocal performance, loping and out of time, also pretty pitchy. One player struggling to catch-up and about stopping to compensate for the timing issues. One player blithely laying out an affected rhythm. Bullet dodged. Some folks fare better solo that with a band. Lightnin' Hopkins ran into this with his arbitrary 12-13 bar blues w/inconsistently added beats. Junior Kimbrough could keep up, but note that his north Mississippi sound is pretty much a one chord drone track with arbitrary changes here and there.
What I'm getting at here is that you have enough innate rhythm to recognize inconsistencies. You have good rhythm, it is just not yet fully integrated into you playing yet. Good ear, my friend. Keep at it if that's what you want.
When you tap your foot are you in time? My inner clock seems to be pretty good (when I reference my foot) but my fingers can rush or drag depending on what they're playing. It's important to know whether the problem is your inner clock or your technique. Chances are good it's your technique that is getting in the way (and technique isn't just something you "get" and then forget about - you need to actively maintain it). I would strongly recommend this programme (I have the PDF version):
GROOVE 101 (DVD incl.) - BOLDUC Sylvain - Product | Les Productions d'OZ
GROOVE 101 (DVD incl.) - BOLDUC Sylvain - Product | Les Productions d'OZ
The place to focus on is the point at which your finger completes the pluck. Think of it like a consonant cluster on a word you sing: it takes longer to say "truck" than it does "tuck" because the "r" consonant adds girth to the onset. Likewise using a pick gives you a very short "consonant" but fingers are thicker than a pick, so they add length to the onset.
You need to start microscopically earlier or move microscopically faster so the onset of pitch comes at the correct time.
You need to start microscopically earlier or move microscopically faster so the onset of pitch comes at the correct time.
Melatonin. Sleep aid.
Don’t over do it. Once or twice to catch up on your sleep. Maybe start exercising.
This is how you learn a complex thing like music, rhythm, dance, martial arts. You are at a plateau, you then, suddenly, for SOME REASON, get better. That part is almost always a surprise... you couldn't but now you can. You then get A LITTLE WORSE, then you plateau... until, miracle upon miracles, you get better again, then worse, then plateau. But, my friend, if you take the slope of the line (connect those two dots I drew with a straight line), you will see that you are improving, it just doesn't seem like it when you are on the journey. Once you know this, and you know where you are going, you will not despair. The KEY to mastery is to "enjoy the plateau." Embrace that part of the experience, and soon, you will be on the rise again.
Once I learned this, I was no longer frustrated with my struggles. I enjoy each plateau. Do others of you not find this to be true?
Sounds like this is pretty universal. I started fingerstyle and then learned to play with a pick. When I first started playing with a pick my instructor noticed that I was often a little smidge early and so I had to learn to "wait" just a hair when playing with a pick. As others have said, it takes practice. Also, like @Discount Bassy said, if you noticed it yourself, you're already ahead of the game. (I did not immediately notice I was early with a pick, but my instructor sure did.) The thing that helped me was recording myself so I could play it back and hear exactly how much I was off. It wasn't a lot, but it was still off enough that if I had bandmates, they would have a legit reason to be annoyed. Recording yourself is a pretty humbling experience if you're not used to it, but it's super helpful.
And now I've been working on slapping a little bit, which has yet another set of timing dynamics. Two of them, in fact, because slapping and popping aren't quite the same, either. There is just no end to the things there are to learn, which is one of the things that makes it fun.
And now I've been working on slapping a little bit, which has yet another set of timing dynamics. Two of them, in fact, because slapping and popping aren't quite the same, either. There is just no end to the things there are to learn, which is one of the things that makes it fun.
what i love from this forum.,....you guys has warm spirit,.....and all newbie and even pro need that to lit the spirit for keep practicing a lot,...also, jalen: when learning and integrating new stuff/skills = there are times (moments/hours/days/weeks/months) when our abilities seem to regress rather than progress. we can be sloppier/clumsier and it's just a natural part of the 'learning curve'. if the process was any different = we'd all be jaco after a few hours!
the cool part is: after a certain point = we get better, faster! stay at it, don't give up, practice like you mean it, and forgive yourself for any backsliding...it's what the rest of us do! good luck with your rhythms and timing!
go to asian local forum and you will find a comment (which i hate the most) :
if they can, why you cannot ? (by comparing to some prodigy 8 years old kid on youtube) and putting aside the fact that everyone has their own story and problem
and there's a satire joke about that in asian musical world :
the biggest fear of asian who played a musical instrument is another asian who has younger age....
not being racist here and i ain't stereotyping , i am also asian, and you know what ? prodigies are around me,..perfect pitch gang everywhere and almost convinced me that i am sound deaf because when i compared myself to them,,,,i am just like a donkey,...and i sign myself for sound deaf test (for real,...you don't have any idea how frustated i am) ,.....
well because of you guys i never stop to keep practicing even with slow result,....
I was a terrible finger style player until I started taking conga lessons. Learning percussion turned my bass technique right around.
Listen to more songs. The more rhythm you hear, the more you're going to know and try to replicate it. Thank you.
Record yourself and listen frequently throughout your practicing (something I wish I'd started way earlier and still need to do more often. Trying to record a bass part over a simple drum loop can correct alot of things.
Finger attack is also interesting. You may find that a pull and release attack is more on beat, or maybe coming at the string faster and from further away like percussion? Experiment and record, sometimes the problem can fix itself like this
Finger attack is also interesting. You may find that a pull and release attack is more on beat, or maybe coming at the string faster and from further away like percussion? Experiment and record, sometimes the problem can fix itself like this
This x100. It shows you’ve got a good ear and a good attitude. Whether it takes a week, a month or a year you’ll be a better player when you’ve figured this out. Good luck!
My sleeping problems are rooted in a few areas. One, I’m coming off of a long road of having coffee everyday which not only do I notice abnormal energy patterns and heart palpitations. Luckily I am moving away from it and the heart palpitations have drastically subsided. The second I’ve been stressed lately about whether to stay in my school’s music program or to drop out mainly due subpar playing that may or may not make me competitive when getting out of school. Finally it’s my adhd which was thought to have been cured/disappeared as I got my older but still exist as I know it’s something that is with you for life which is know to aid in sleep related issues in many but not all people with it.
In addition to all the other excellent advice above (percussion, etc)...
I'd strongly advise you to take up Tai Chi. There are Tai Chi clubs in most towns, and it's an excellent practice to settle you in tighter with your physical body
I'd strongly advise you to take up Tai Chi. There are Tai Chi clubs in most towns, and it's an excellent practice to settle you in tighter with your physical body
Don't get down on yourself. I've been playing for 30 years, and if I don't play every day my rhythm suffers. If I take, let's say, a month off, I need a solid week of practicing to get my groove back.
Here are a couple of tricks - I had been playing for a long time before I discovered these, but once I did it really helped my rhythm. These might seem a bit out there but once you get it, you'll totally get it.
1) Pay less attention to yourself when you're playing, instead listen to the other instruments, and you'll 'hear' the bass fitting in better. I find if I do this, my playing falls right in time easier with everyone else. If you're playing on your own, don't 'play' the bass; but instead 'hear' the bass.
2) Move your body, dance, nod your head, tap your foot, whatever you feel comfortable doing. Groove comes from your body & muscles, not your brain, if that makes sense. If your brain dictates the beat, you're going to drag a bit due to the time it takes for the signal to travel through your nerves, to your fingers. It's kind of like playing sports - 5% brain power / 95% muscle memory.
Hope this helps!
Here are a couple of tricks - I had been playing for a long time before I discovered these, but once I did it really helped my rhythm. These might seem a bit out there but once you get it, you'll totally get it.
1) Pay less attention to yourself when you're playing, instead listen to the other instruments, and you'll 'hear' the bass fitting in better. I find if I do this, my playing falls right in time easier with everyone else. If you're playing on your own, don't 'play' the bass; but instead 'hear' the bass.
2) Move your body, dance, nod your head, tap your foot, whatever you feel comfortable doing. Groove comes from your body & muscles, not your brain, if that makes sense. If your brain dictates the beat, you're going to drag a bit due to the time it takes for the signal to travel through your nerves, to your fingers. It's kind of like playing sports - 5% brain power / 95% muscle memory.
Hope this helps!
Getting off coffee slowly and in increments, over a month until your off completely will help. I quit coffee and so did my daughter in college --we both feel great and have more energy. A long, brisk walk everyday does wonders for your health and playing. If I'm sucking on bass it usually means I'm not listening, and maybe not paying attention enough to the time pulse of what I'm playing with. I also try to play with the metronome beating only 1 beat per measure. Focus is the key to playing well. If you're distracted your playing will reflect that. I try to practice every other day, instead of everyday; I find my focus and listening are better this way. If I'm really tired it's hard to play well and focus. Take a couple of days and get some rest and relax. Music is incredible, but not really that important in the big picture. Grab your bass and have some fun, and then work on your skills when you feel like it.
