I doubt I'm the only one, but the very first time I ever tried to play bass with a pick, I used this method without even knowing what it was. It really, really works, and it works really well.
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Why I keep hammering the Carol Kaye pick method
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
I tried the CK method, but I hate the sound I get playing near the neck.
I usually pick on the bridge pickup of my jazz bass.
how do people who use the CK playing style get to play near the bridge? I can't figure it...
I usually pick on the bridge pickup of my jazz bass.
how do people who use the CK playing style get to play near the bridge? I can't figure it...
Doesn't Steve Swallow use a copper coin as a pick?
If I'm remembering rightly then it's been done on bass too.
They don't. Playing near the bridge gets pretty painful really quick so I don't do it. Love the sound of palm muting but I like the use of my right hand in everyday life even more so I don't do that, either. Like you, I don't really care for playing up at the neck too much, so I lightened up my string gauges and I can play down to right around the P pickup before it gets painful. Not the answer for everyone, but it worked for me.
The main thing is the rigidity. The more rigid it is, the more it takes the brunt of the work instead of your hand. Coins qualify if that's your thing. Probably cheaper than a pick these days, too
thanks for the answer and for the topic
I noticed I can play near the bridge with a side to side motion of the wrist by keeping the pick angled, not flat on the strings. that's the way I play and I keep my hand relaxed and confortable, using only the muscles of the wrist.
I wonder if this could cause any harm...
I know it's a year old, but I know Jimmy still reads all this stuff. VERY good tips man! I have had CTS since '86-7 from a warehouse job lifting heavy bags, weightlifting, typing, and of course, bass playing. I have read the Carol K page before, but never tried the technique very thoroughly. I did after reading this whole post and it makes damn good sense! It seems to immediately help. I've tried changing my hand positions many times and best I can do is keep it under control. I'm a guitar player too, and I have the "lazy pinky anchor" thing going for sure. Gonna try this tonight at rehearsal and see if I can pull it off. I can play fingerstyle, but I'll admit I'm a pick guy. John Wetton/King Crimson are awesome too btw. Always like KC since I was a kid. I didn't know you were such an old fu*ker either Jimmy! You are slightly older than me. New respect. I think I just like to argue and debate as much as you do. In this case, you are RIGHT ON. Listen to Jimmy if you don't want pain later. I'm about to hit the big 43 btw.
I forgot to say that I have always used the dunlop .73mm yellow picks too. I always liked that they "gave" a little more. Gonna try the heavies again. I also just switched to all B strings and heavier gauges. My band is in B standard now and I don't want to give that booming up. I disagree with Carol about the B. She plays pop anyways. I am into Thunder. But I do want my hands to remain usable!
Greevus, there's a lot one can disagree about with Carol. She's pretty curmudgeonly. This ain't one of them as far as I'm concerned.
Panazza, it's possible it could work for you, but if you start feeling pain, might be a good idea to stop and rethink your strategy.
Panazza, it's possible it could work for you, but if you start feeling pain, might be a good idea to stop and rethink your strategy.
I have to say i'm with Carol, Jimmy and Leo Fender on this one.
Look at any of the early electric basses from Fender, all the hardware and guards are in positions that put you playing up near the neck. Any thumb rests or fringer rests are all up that end as well, so what were they telling us all those years ago?
Think of it like a trampoline, the best response is away from the points of tension,(the edges) and in the middle, your bass strings are the same, but consider the middle to be up by the neck.
I could give you so many reasons why what Jimmy and CK say is as true today as it was then, even with issues they could not have considered back then. Nice to see a thread re-appear with relevence for someone, nice OP Jimmy.
Look at any of the early electric basses from Fender, all the hardware and guards are in positions that put you playing up near the neck. Any thumb rests or fringer rests are all up that end as well, so what were they telling us all those years ago?
Think of it like a trampoline, the best response is away from the points of tension,(the edges) and in the middle, your bass strings are the same, but consider the middle to be up by the neck.
I could give you so many reasons why what Jimmy and CK say is as true today as it was then, even with issues they could not have considered back then. Nice to see a thread re-appear with relevence for someone, nice OP Jimmy.
This really needs to be stickied. Every bassist that uses a pick should read it. I came across the CK mehtod naturally when I was trying to find the most efficient least tiring way of picking. When your picking a lot of fast 32nd notes you'll notice it real quick if not using proper technique
Yeah to heck with Steve Bailey and Jeff Berlin, THE Texas cage match would be Carol Kaye vs Jeff Berlin!
Re coins as picks - the first time I tried learning bass, my instructor was using dimes as picks - good size, rigid, and you can change the tone you get depending on how you angle the serrated edge of the coin as you stroke up or down. I don't play pick style often, but think I'll practice using this method for those time when I do...
well, I think bass playing and bass tone were really different those days when the first electric bass was designed.
I always felt a bass sounds just... MORE when played nearer to the bridge with a pick. more mids, more perceived volume, clearer attack. Playing near the neck (exp. with a pick) seems to choke the tone IMHO.
And I find a bit useless picking near the neck, the sound I get is so smooth I'd rather play with my fingers instead.
I'm a finger picker, but, after 23'ish years on the low end, I'm FINALLY learning to play guitar. Playing with a pick was always difficult and I'm just now getting used to it. But the techniques to use have always been a mystery to - how do I hold the thing; what gauge do I use, etc etc. I'm gonna look at the CK thing and see if I'm anywhere close to doing it that way. If not, I'll make adjustments. Better to learn it now rather than have to adjust later.
PS. The guitarist I would most like to emulate is long time favorite Mark Knopfler. I figure since I'm already used to playing with my fingers, I have a head start. But it's sooo different in so many ways, talk about some complex technique. Still, the sound he gets from his style.... Man, I would LOVE to be able to play something like that some day!
PS. The guitarist I would most like to emulate is long time favorite Mark Knopfler. I figure since I'm already used to playing with my fingers, I have a head start. But it's sooo different in so many ways, talk about some complex technique. Still, the sound he gets from his style.... Man, I would LOVE to be able to play something like that some day!
LOL It was the amplification that was different, not the basses or the style. A 56 bass played with a pick away from the bridge, and unplugged, sounds the same to day as it did in 56.
If you would rather play with your fingers......what was your point again on a thread about using a pick.
I tend to agree with Carol on picking technique, however I've adapted my own way of doing it. I pick in between the two pickups on my jazz bass because I play punk music and the increased tension makes it easier for the pick to go through the string. It also sounds more focused and punchy. Picking fast near the neck is actually MORE work imo. I also like to use .88, they have just a very slight give which adds more punch. I used to use .60s but they do hurt after playing a while the .88s seem to work well for me.
Describe your way of picking... I'm curious
@fergie: music styles have evolved, not only amps. think about heavy metal bass tone ... I don't think they needed that tone in 1956...
I know it's nonsense talking about fingers on this thread. I just think bass players grab a pick when they need a certain sharp tone they can't get using fingers. Playing with a pick near the neck resembles fingers very much to me. anyway, it's just a matter of taste. I suck at fingering so I would consider playing with a pick near the neck if I need a mellower tone.
I just have the bass to where half of the back of the bass is below the belt half above, this makes it so that my picking hand is naturally in between the two J pickups, I don't anchor my hand anywhere, I just use wrist motion and sometimes my shoulder (for stage effect) to pick.
Don't ever wiggle your thumb to pick or anchor your hand on the bass or it will cause problems.
I also don't see what the big deal is with picking at the bridge, if you have your strap set up to where its comfortable, it should not cause injury. Picking at the neck can sound very different from fingers, it has a chunkier, fatter sound.
This guy picks at the neck
Don't ever wiggle your thumb to pick or anchor your hand on the bass or it will cause problems.
I also don't see what the big deal is with picking at the bridge, if you have your strap set up to where its comfortable, it should not cause injury. Picking at the neck can sound very different from fingers, it has a chunkier, fatter sound.
This guy picks at the neck
