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Why I keep hammering the Carol Kaye pick method
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
Been trying the CK style and using heavier picks, and the pain is way less for sure! It is a little clumsy for me currently and my bandmates are staring at me like I'm on crack, but I'm trying. It is very hard not to anchor my pinkie too. Just a long habit I've had for years. I always loved the percussive sound closer to the bridge, but playing closer to the neck helps the hand pain. I catch myself retreating if I don't concentrate, but even switching back and forth helps. I agree that is sounds more like fingers too. Ain't that about a B? I can play with my fingers, but always loved picks more. Just far more aggressive and biting to me. It figures my biggest influences like Maiden and Sabbath DON'T use picks.
I used to rest my forearm, but I've recently noticed that I don't do it anymore. Don't know why I never noticed it...never even really thought about it until a recent thread. But there you go. You will lose some mobility but I doubt it'll cause injury unless you smoosh down hard with your forearm.
It's not the wrist position. It's because there is way more tension on the strings at the bridge than in the middle of the string. Your hand has to exert more pressure on the pick at the bridge to get the string to move. So I'd say that if you don't like picking at the neck, pick as close to it as you can possibly stand, or lighten up your string gauges like I did.
Thats because the response (or bounce) is different. Its a feel thing, because the tension is less in the middle, the string can resonate more, unlike up at the bridge.
If you want an fun example, next time you have access to a trampoline, bounce up and down in the middle a dozen or so times, then come off and jump in the air 3 or 4 times....you'll understand tension better if you try this
J
jhan
Guest
"5. (OOPS...forgot this one...extremely important!) Don't play just downstrokes. Always play down-up. Downstrokes take your wrist out of the side to side movement and cause pain. "But Jimmy," you protest, "Downstrokes sound heavier than upstrokes!" Hmmm, sounds like you need to practice more. If someone can tell the difference between you playing all downstrokes and you playing down-up, just practice it until you get it."
I don't see how anyone could be an effective pick player without learning how to alternate pick!
I'm a 90% finger, 10% pick player. The only reason I play with a pick is to get the specific attack a song might require. But I make sure to practice with a pick regularly. This post will definitely change my pick-practice, and probably for the better.
I don't see how anyone could be an effective pick player without learning how to alternate pick!
I'm a 90% finger, 10% pick player. The only reason I play with a pick is to get the specific attack a song might require. But I make sure to practice with a pick regularly. This post will definitely change my pick-practice, and probably for the better.
That couldn't have a single thing to do with your technique at all, I'm sure.
:scowl:
Hey, the info is here for those who want it...for those who don't, I can't help that. I can only wish you luck.
does playing with a light or medium pick near the bridge cause too much stress?
I started experimenting after reading this thread and I noticed that I got fatigue in my picking hand when using heavy picks near the bridge.
with a medium pick the stress is gone.
I started experimenting after reading this thread and I noticed that I got fatigue in my picking hand when using heavy picks near the bridge.
with a medium pick the stress is gone.
Does that look reasonable height to people? I'm a bit worried after this messed up injury I've just got. It looks like I play close to the bridge on that photo but I play much higher up then that, maybe about 2-3 inches past where the neck stops. I play using an .88 nylon dunlop using thumb, index, and middle fingers and get most of my power from my upper arm but my arm doesn't really move. I use 110s but I don't play super hard on them anymore, I could do with playing pretty fast in some sections though.
Also how much muting is damaging? I use it very very sparingly and when I do do it I'm doing it pretty quietly.
Playing near the neck doesn't sound too bassy and you can play plentifully fast with good technique, like really stupidly fast like I mentioned earlier
As for not looking cool check this guy out, he's clearly the coolest guy to ever grace the planet not that any of you will know who he is...
Guys, different people react to things differently at different phases of their lives. When you're young and strong like Swami here, you can do pretty much anything. When you get my age and the joints start rubbing together and the 12 lb bass you used to swing wildly now feels like an anvil, that's a different story. So all I can say is if it doesn't give you pain, it should be fine, but if it does, Carol's way is pain-free.
This is really fantastic advice. Thanks so much!
One thing I'm having trouble with however, is the whole picking closer to the neck. I play a Fender Jazz and my hand naturally goes to the bridge pickup when picking. How can one hold one's arm to get to the neck pickup?
I also go with light picks because they're easier, but it makes more sense to use heavies after reading this.
Thanks!
One thing I'm having trouble with however, is the whole picking closer to the neck. I play a Fender Jazz and my hand naturally goes to the bridge pickup when picking. How can one hold one's arm to get to the neck pickup?
I also go with light picks because they're easier, but it makes more sense to use heavies after reading this.
Thanks!
Haven't read the whole thread ..are felt picks OK for your wrist or do they have their set of baggage as well?
Actually I often use an ivoride thumb pick because I can switch back and forth between picking and raking without missing a beat.
Actually I often use an ivoride thumb pick because I can switch back and forth between picking and raking without missing a beat.
Not feeling so strong at the moment with one of my arms being about half the temperature of the other but normally it's all good, the only thing I'm probably a bit of an idiot with is carrying far more weight then I'm entirely comfortable with. The only thing that really concerned me was you mentioning that it doesn't necessarily have to be painful for it to build up and become a problem, the only thing that's genuinely painful is long band practises but my ATK has one of those godawful seatbelt straps on at the moment which makes the problem twice as bad as it probably really is.
To be honest I'm probably just overreacting to the condition I have with my nerves and muscles been a bit buggered at the moment, and am in a general state of being scared shitless that I'll never be able to play bass or guitar the same way ever again without doing the same thing. To be honest needlessly stressing myself out like that is probably what caused all the muscle tension that caused it in the first place...
To be honest I'm probably just overreacting to the condition I have with my nerves and muscles been a bit buggered at the moment, and am in a general state of being scared shitless that I'll never be able to play bass or guitar the same way ever again without doing the same thing. To be honest needlessly stressing myself out like that is probably what caused all the muscle tension that caused it in the first place...
Hold it a few inches to the left of where you used to hold it
Sorry for sounding flip, but it's really that simple. Maybe you can swing the bass around a little or raise it up a little...
I'd stick with that over the felt. Felt can be pretty flexible even though it's thick.Haven't read the whole thread ..are felt picks OK for your wrist or do they have their set of baggage as well?
Actually I often use an ivoride thumb pick because I can switch back and forth between picking and raking without missing a beat.
You're probably right, Swami. Tension in the rest of your body can easily manifest itself in your playing and cause pain. And you're definitely right about the seatbelt strap. Had I not used them for 25 years, I could still probably hold a Jazz Bass. Never had a day's worth of pain till I was 40. Then all hell broke loose, right in the area where the seatbelt strap would hang. So see a doctor, get rid of the seatbelt strap, and give yourself a chance to settle down a little.
Jimmy and others - I'm just learning to use a pick after many years of straight fingerstyle. In fact, I'm still faster with two fingers than I am with a pick. I have gotten a number of good playing tips from CK's website, and find that I'm generally following the advice CK gives.
For many years I played fingerstyle almost exclusively with my thumb anchored on the bottom end of the neck, so I'll have to see how I do with a pick in that area.
One note: it's not actually correct to say that the string tension is higher near the bridge. It's not, because the tension is the same all along the string...it has to be. What's different is the string's rigidity, which can indeed vary - because when you get close to the bridge, you're close to the string's anchor point passing over the saddle. Naturally the string has more resistance to movement (bending) right next to the saddle. In the middle of the string it has less resistance to movement (is less rigid) because there's no fixed/anchor point for the string nearby.
I believe this is what Jimmy is concerned about - the more resistance to bending (rigidity), the harder the pick and your hand have to work to move/pluck the string. If you move to a point farther away from the bridge and nearer the neck, you're moving to where the string is less rigid, and therefore you don't have to apply as much force to move/pluck the string.
At least, that's the way I've reasoned it out. Tension does not vary - rigidity does.
For many years I played fingerstyle almost exclusively with my thumb anchored on the bottom end of the neck, so I'll have to see how I do with a pick in that area.
One note: it's not actually correct to say that the string tension is higher near the bridge. It's not, because the tension is the same all along the string...it has to be. What's different is the string's rigidity, which can indeed vary - because when you get close to the bridge, you're close to the string's anchor point passing over the saddle. Naturally the string has more resistance to movement (bending) right next to the saddle. In the middle of the string it has less resistance to movement (is less rigid) because there's no fixed/anchor point for the string nearby.
I believe this is what Jimmy is concerned about - the more resistance to bending (rigidity), the harder the pick and your hand have to work to move/pluck the string. If you move to a point farther away from the bridge and nearer the neck, you're moving to where the string is less rigid, and therefore you don't have to apply as much force to move/pluck the string.
At least, that's the way I've reasoned it out. Tension does not vary - rigidity does.
