Why is it hard to keep rhythm when playing alone?

[micguy]

If you're learning a new tune, and having issues with timing, start by just playing SOMETHING in time - notes don't matter. Play the root note for the key the song is in, and nothing else, until you have the feel and timing right. Then, only after you have the feel, figure out what notes to play.

A lot of times, timing issues come up when someone is uncertain of what notes to play - when you hit a wrong one, you'll get distracted by what the next note should be, rather than when it should be. Timing is more important than the right note - a wrong note played in time might sound a little sour, but if the timing isn't interrupted, the feel of the thing will still be OK. The right note at the wrong time, however, kills the feel. Getting that lesson internalized - go ahead play a few wrong notes, just keep the beat going - makes all the difference.

I play wrong notes, but 99 percent of the time, my mistakes are the wrong note at the right time. The other 1% - missing an intro, or starting too soon - way more "memorable", and way more noticeable.

I've had the pleasure of playing with some really great drummers - the first band I was in, if the guy practiced with a metronome, it was for the metronome's benefit - he was that good. I was also in a band where we fired a drummer (yeah, I know - big shock), and practiced for a while without one. Best thing that ever happened to us - the rest of us were responsible for timing, and it improved us immensely.

The most important skill in any musician is timing. Treat it as the most important thing, and...you'll get it.

 

[Spidey2112]

A tip a drummer gave me, a long time ago, was to feel an underlying pulse twice the actual rhythm of the line you're playing. Like, if you're playing quarter notes, feel the line in eighths; if playing eighths, feel sixteenths. I found that concept very helpful.

Fills in the space, so to speak...

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Time keeping was an issue i found other had when i stooped playing in orchestral music, no drum beat to follow either on the 1 and 3 or the 2 and 4...so how did i develop my sense of timing without a drummer?

Two answers,
1/ i already had natural rhythm and i just enhanced it.
2/ i did not have natural rhythm, but i learned it and developed it.

OK in the classical setting i was reading music, so i got to see how rhythm felt, first off learn your part out of tempo and out of rhythm, then put it back together in tempo...a slower tempo to start with then increase it if necessary...i say necessary because you can develop all the skills at a slow tempo and they will work at a higher tempo.
Now for some this may not be true, because higher tempo means stamina, that is a different issue, but when you are training to play orchestral music stamina is not an issue because the training and practice makes is not one.
You never really notice stamina issues when learning because everything is physical, learning to play is 100% physical.... 0% mental.
As we improve this balance changes, and as we start to develop what we want to play it becomes lead by the mental side wanting to play a piece and the physical side developing the skills to do it.

Again in the orchestra setting i never got to choose what i wanted to play, so the physical side was always kept up, so was development... and with it the sense of rhythm within tempo.
One of the best lessons on developing your sense of timing (that is rhythm within tempo) is to listen to music and count along with it.
How we count tempo is a unique thing, again in the orchestra situation we were never encouraged to tap feet or nod heads, but watch the conductor and feel the tempo.
So listen to a piece of music and count it, and find out how many different ways you can count it out loud, then learn to feel it...trust me the counting out loud will stop and you will "hear the tempo" in you head....you have now internalized counting.

So in answer to the two answers i gave, the single answer is that good practice and solid technique will take care of it, its just that the person with natural feel will get results quicker, but over time that will even out....some just have more to develop than others so need more time.

For me the best way is to listen and count, in this you develop the skill of timing, if you try to play and develop your timing at the same time...then maybe it is the physical side tripping the mental side?
If you listen to a song and count it through in your head even and in tempo, but cannot do it when playing the instrument then look to your technique...maybe your physical side is still trying to lead the mental side?

 

[bassdude51]

This is not true. A musician should never rely on others time keeping, especially bass players since we complement drummers rhythm.

Relying on others timing means you lack your own time which brings to certain big issues. Namely:


You will never get this if you don't develop a great internal clock. I could get further into this but I won't. Just remember that a good internal rhythm = 80% of being a good musician.

Umm, a couple of comments on your comment. Just discussing this "bassist timing" subject.

It is true that we bass players compliment the drummer's rhythm. Does the drummer follow the bassist or the bassist follow the drummer? Everybody in the band follows the drummer. He is the time keeper. The bassist keeps time with the drummer. The drummer keeps the bassists in time as well as everybody else.

Tangent : I recently read that Charlie Watts, the drummer of the Rolling Stones actually followed Keith Richards for timing and as a result, Bill Wyman the bass player described The Stones' sound as having a wobble because Charlie was always a micron off in timing with Keith.

My bass teacher, that I already mentioned, required that all his students use a metronome. His thinking was that if we used a metronome constantly with our bass practice...............then eventually, we'd develop our own accurate internal metronome in our minds and body in our playing.

Bottom line, it doesn't hurt to use a metronome for timing. A bass player will play more accurately with a drummer than without.

 

[Pacman]

It is true that we bass players compliment the drummer's rhythm. Does the drummer follow the bassist or the bassist follow the drummer? Everybody in the band follows the drummer. He is the time keeper. The bassist keeps time with the drummer. The drummer keeps the bassists in time as well as everybody else.

Couldn't disagree more. The bassist is the time keeper. The drummer is there for style. Overly simplified, but accurate throughout my career.

 

[bassdude51]

Couldn't disagree more. The bassist is the time keeper. The drummer is there for style. Overly simplified, but accurate throughout my career.

LOL

 

[Pacman]

LOL

Care to share why that's funny?

 

[bass12]

Umm, a couple of comments on your comment. Just discussing this "bassist timing" subject.

It is true that we bass players compliment the drummer's rhythm. Does the drummer follow the bassist or the bassist follow the drummer? Everybody in the band follows the drummer. He is the time keeper. The bassist keeps time with the drummer. The drummer keeps the bassists in time as well as everybody else.

Tangent : I recently read that Charlie Watts, the drummer of the Rolling Stones actually followed Keith Richards for timing and as a result, Bill Wyman the bass player described The Stones' sound as having a wobble because Charlie was always a micron off in timing with Keith.

My bass teacher, that I already mentioned, required that all his students use a metronome. His thinking was that if we used a metronome constantly with our bass practice...............then eventually, we'd develop our own accurate internal metronome in our minds and body in our playing.

Bottom line, it doesn't hurt to use a metronome for timing. A bass player will play more accurately with a drummer than without.

The drummer is the primary reference point but that doesn't mean he won't stray. When he does stray it's up to you to keep things solidly rooted so that things can fall back into line.

 

[Bioflava]

Everyone in the band needs to have good time -- especially the bassist and drummer! Sure you can key off the drummer as a bass player, but most drummers are not as solid as they think.

Even in a band w/ a crack drummer, the bassist still needs to have great time and feel for the whole band to sound solid.

Side note: I recently heard Dead & Co live and their two drummers were all over the place (as is common w the Grateful Dead) -- the bassist, Oteil Burbridge, just glued the band together. He laid way back into the beat AND kept up rock solid time... man he is an amazing musician!

 

[rockinbilly]

I think some people have a very good sense of rhythm naturally built in,
some don't and never will(these become lead guitar players),
but most can train themselves into it...a metronome or drum loops app should help a lot...even just playing along with a tune.
Like everything else, start simple and slow, and build it up.

As James Brown said, it's all about 'The One'. get that right and it'll all fall into place eventually.

For over 50 yrs I've been learning bass lines by listening, and playing along with the recordings,( thankfully I don't have to keep moving the needle back any more ) and not only did this give me an ear to discern bass lines, but also gave me a very good sense of time.
I also agree with the foot tap, and believe playing with a metronome is a good idea, in fact I have recently suggested this to our drummer !

 

[bassdude51]

A timing marriage. Bass and sticks.

 

[Bigbri]

Why is is hard to keep rhythm on bass when your play with nothing but yourself can someone please explain why.(no trolling here)

I think it's easier to keep time when your slapping and keeping time like a drummer. It's just the difficulty of playing melodically around the time and keeping the time, at the same time.

 

[Oddly]

Steve Martin 'claimed' to not have any rhythm, but did pretty well for himself... ever hear him play the banjo?

I have his two cds he did with Edie Brickell - He's a far better musician than comic, if you ask me!

 

[40Hz]

You tend to anticipate on difficult parts and lose focus on easy parts without a metronome or strongly developed inner clock. And that inner clock needs steady exercise or it drifts out - based on my own experience at least.

If you're not in a band or playing regularly, you'll notice you tend to drift. I've been out of regular gigging for approaching three years now since I'm still getting back on my feet following some medical issues. And I can now feel how my inner timing is off. Fortunately, I can still lock in rock solid with a drummer, click track, or metronome, so it's not something I've lost forever. I just need more regular work before I get the old internal timekeeper recalibrated. Because timing is a skill. Not a talent.

At home always play with either a metronome or a drum machine of some sort. If you have a computer and don't want to buy anything, check out the free open-source drum machine software called [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. There's versions for Linux, MacOS, and Windows. You can set up as simple or complex a drumline as you want and play along.

 

[bolophonic]

You have to be working on your sense of rhythm at all times. If you are listening to music without dancing or at least tapping out the beat, you are missing loads of opportunities to improve.

 

[joebar]

my internal clock is really solid--
if I am playing with drummers whose clock is broken/undeveloped/missing; it becomes readily apparent from the get go.
in a case like this, I'm better off playing with no drummer.
I guess I've the opposite problem.

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

I have had problems with pushing the beat, especially earlier in my playing days when I didn't get to play with drummers as much. I saw this off-the-wall advice online somewhere, can't recall where ... it was a teacher who said something to the effect of "This is going to sound really weird ... but get one of those old-fashioned ticking alarm clocks and keep it by your bed when you sleep. The constant ticking works its way into your subconscious and jump starts your internal clock. Practice with a metronome too, of course, and play with drummers as often as you can ... but try this weird trick and see if it helps."

I did, and after about three days, my time was so much better. The next session I had the opportunity to do, the producer raved about my time. This may not work for you (I've had friends who said they tried it and all the clock did was make it impossible for them to sleep, lol), but worth a shot perhaps.

In fact, as I haven't been getting to play with drummers much over the last year or so, but am about to start up again, I'm going to dig out my old ticky clock and go through this process again, lol.

Best of luck to you!

A drumline instructor said something similar to me.
Get a metronome, and every night, set it to a random tempo. A different tempo every night.
Put it under your pillow as you sleep.
That way you don't get locked into only 1 tempo, as you might with a ticking alarm clock, so your internal meter is better at all tempos.

And to the OP: set your metronome to ~50bpm, and do your warmup/scales. You can't hide bad timing in a slow tempo.
Then, practice tunes you know by heart at their original tempo and at both slower and faster tempos.
When you've got that down (give it ~6 months. Trust me), divide your bpm in half and use the click on only the 1 & 3, then the 2 & 4.
Then only on the 1, then the 2, then the 3, then the 4. Learn to play to the click, then to play around it.
Do the work every day and you'll be a master of the beat in no time!

 

[Inara]

A drumline instructor said something similar to me.
Get a metronome, and every night, set it to a random tempo. A different tempo every night.
Put it under your pillow as you sleep.
That way you don't get locked into only 1 tempo, as you might with a ticking alarm clock, so your internal meter is better at all tempos.

And to the OP: set your metronome to ~50bpm, and do your warmup/scales. You can't hide bad timing in a slow tempo.
Then, practice tunes you know by heart at their original tempo and at both slower and faster tempos.
When you've got that down (give it ~6 months. Trust me), divide your bpm in half and use the click on only the 1 & 3, then the 2 & 4.
Then only on the 1, then the 2, then the 3, then the 4. Learn to play to the click, then to play around it.
Do the work every day and you'll be a master of the beat in no time!

Makes a ton of sense ... I had wondered about that single 60 bpm tempo that you'll get from a clock that ticks once per second. The clock worked for me before, but I think I'll try exactly what you said here this time around.

 

[Reedt2000]

Because you spend too much time posting on TB?

 

[sawzalot]

You need an internal pulse, which you may not have practiced developing. Play scales or modes with a metronome at a comfortable tempo, one note per click. Then practice 4 notes per click. Then gradually SLOW the metronome down. You want to eventually get it as slow as possible, four notes per click. Then go to three notes per click, then two, and finally one--EXACTLY on the click. Do this at a variety of tempos, but if you can hit the click consistently, one note per click, at 10 bpm, you're on the way.