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Why is my bridge placement NEVER back far enough for proper intonation?

Rob Page

Rob Page

Commercial User
Oct 7, 2020
213
402
Culver City, CA
www.instagram.com
Disclosures
Pipe Dream Fretworks
#1
Here's my method for placing the bridge:

I adjust the saddle for the highest string as far forward as it will go, then pull it slightly back then mount the bridge with that saddle at the scale length point (i.e, 30", 34", 25.5" whatever) and STILL, I can never get the saddles for the lower strings far enough back that the note isn't sharp at the 12th fret. What am I doing wrong?
 
#2
Rob Page said:
Here's my method for placing the bridge:

I adjust the saddle for the highest string as far forward as it will go, then pull it slightly back then mount the bridge with that saddle at the scale length point (i.e, 30", 34", 25.5" whatever) and STILL, I can never get the saddles for the lower strings far enough back that the note isn't sharp at the 12th fret. What am I doing wrong?
Click to expand...

Set your witness points at the nut, bridge saddle, and tuner. Not sure what your definition of "slightly" is but I just measured a G on a fiver...it's 33 7/8" on a 34" scale bass. I'm sure there's a proper procedure for placement. I pretty much aim for covering the existing footprint when compelled to drill new holes and have been lucky so far.

Riis
 
#3
Zooberwerx said:
Set your witness points at the nut, bridge saddle, and tuner. Not sure what your definition of "slightly" is but I just measured a G on a fiver...it's 33 7/8" on a 34" scale bass. I'm sure there's a proper procedure for placement. I pretty much aim for covering the existing footprint when compelled to drill new holes and have been lucky so far.

Riis
Click to expand...
What's a "witness point"?
 
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#4
"Witness point" should translate as "stopping point" of which there are two for each string. The stopping points (nut face and string saddle breakover point) define the "speaking length" of the string.

As far as the intonated distance it will always be greater than the hypothetical scale length which is 2 times the distance from the nut face to the center of the 12th fret.

The BEST thing to do for any new design is to physically verify your bridge location before permanently mounting it. That can be a little tricky to figure out a way to do it, but it's worth the effort.

Bridges that don't have a lot of saddle travel can be dicey to get right, and in that case you'd want to set your bridge so the saddles are no shorter than hypothetical scale length when the saddle is positioned all the way forward. That should ensure you have enough travel to intonate properly, but mocking it up is always a better idea.
 
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#6
I usually measure from the 12th fret, half the scale length and put the saddle at the end of its travel on that point. I've honestly never had to move a saddle nutward for intonation. In every case, over many builds, even the thinnest strings move a bit back. Another factor is you can use shorter travel bridges on 4 string builds but if you have a low B, odds are you'll need a little more travel in the bridge design. :thumbsup:
 
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#7
Ive been setting the G string saddle all.the way forward, then turn it back one or two turns, then set to the exact scale length at that point, and its always worked. I never heard of Witness Points until i joined TB but it makes sense. If the string is just arcing over the bridge saddle in a sloppy arc, the intonation point kind of "floats" somewhere along that arc. Get the intonation as close as you can and then give the string a hard push down with one finger in front, and one behind the saddle. That creates a clean break point in the string length.
 
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#9
I’m going to be totally honest... I have purchased all of my bridges in “used” condition and I just measure out 34” from the nut, eyeball the placement of the saddles and then drill.

Most of the time, I only require a tiny bit of intonation work, and there have been a few times when the intonation was practically good-to-go from the start.
 
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#10
Before marking the holes and mounting a bridge, I move the saddles forward so that the front edges of the baseplate and saddles are flush, or maybe as much as 1/32 back. The only compensation issues I encounter are with the heavier B string gauges.
 
#12
JRA said:
sounds like you're placing your bridge too far forward. any B strings involved? what bridge are you using?

my bridge placement method is some combination of everything i've read so far. but i play fretless so i may have more inherent 'wiggle room' than a fretted ax.
Click to expand...
I place the bridge for the highest string a few turns back from fully forward and place that at the scale length. That string is usually fine by my lower strings, I can never pull the saddles back far enough to keep the note from going sharp at the 12th fret. No B strings involved. Bridges used: Hipshot, Sung-Il.
 
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#13
Rob Page said:
I place the bridge for the highest string a few turns back from fully forward and place that at the scale length. That string is usually fine by my lower strings, I can never pull the saddles back far enough to keep the note from going sharp at the 12th fret. No B strings involved. Bridges used: Hipshot, Sung-Il.
Click to expand...

Same holds true for the E string re: witness points. A head-on shot and lateral pic may help.

Riis
 
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#14
I'll second (or sixth or whatever we're up to) the notion that your placement process is largely correct. I aim for the scale length to be 1/8" back from the furthest forward possible saddle position.

But I too have been bitten (twice) where I didn't have quite enough room. Some bridges just don't have a lot of travel, and if you're using a string choice or other variable that already puts you at "needs lots of adjustment room" with one of those bridges, you're doomed. On one of these problem instruments I solved it by swapping springs and filing the saddle to allow for slightly more travel. On the other, I swapped out the intonation screw and spring for shorter pieces to allow more travel. There are creative solutions.

And I think it's worth noting that for all it's simplicity, the original bent plate Fender bridge is incredibly versatile and adjustable. They certainly have more intonation range than some fancy modern bridges. I often find myself turning my nose up at them, but I can't think of a bridge adjustment problem that isn't easy to address with that design. Sometimes it pays to choose practicality over fancy modern designs.
 
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#15
scale is given to you from the neck. what you need to do for decent bridge placement is use the compensated string length. calculate this length with your target string gage. calculate also for one gage up and one gage down. these figures will give you the min and max saddle adjustment range needed. place the bridge mid point of these two values.
 
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#19
As you move your hand up the neck it becomes easier to accidentally pull or push the string sideways as you fret it. This can pull the string a little sharp. If you are checking intonation in playing position this possibly could be the issue. Try checking with the bass laying flat on a table and see if it shows a different result.

If this is the issue you owe me 2 tacos from Tito's Tacos.
 

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