Double Bass Why isn't Bluegrass more popular?

[M Ramsey]

Bluegrass has plenty of soul and groove. Here's an hour's worth of Larry Sparks music from Bean Blossom this past June. Listen and I'm sure there will be a dose or two of soul included.

Sparks has been at this business of bluegrass for about 50 years or so. Alison Krauss and the former mother/daughter county duo The Judds cite his musical works as major influences.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[MollyKay]

Bluegrass is alive and well in my area. The jamming is Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday for me. Don’t get paid a dime and don’t care if I ever do. It is the nirvana place when you meet up with some good players (some you know, some you don’t know) that you can stand shoulder to shoulder with for hours on end and not have another thought in the world other then the being present in that moment.

In bluegrass the bass drives the beat (and can drive your a$$ up the wall), we hold down the whole shebang. If you have not stood in that circle of music and felt that drive…well…you haven’t felt bluegrass music in your soul.

It’s a wonderful groove, one I look forward to every time I tune up my bass.

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

This site is an excellent gauge for measuring the popularity of Bluegrass music, and other genres peripheral to it:

www.bluegrasstoday.com

 

[jeepnstein]

New guy here!

In my little slice of heaven called South Eastern Ohio, Bluegrass music is very much alive and kicking. There's very little money in it but that's always really been the case. It's a musical form that is played more than it is listened to. Much more participatory than any other genre I know. That's why I'm taking up the bass, you simply must play more than one instrument in order to break into the scene unless your are some kind of prodigy.

New Grass is doing a bit better than traditional Bill Monroe style bands. Lots of hipster kids are getting into the scene for some reason. Maybe they're not as annoying as they seem?

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

"it's a musical form that is played more than it is listened to. Much more participatory than any other genre I know..."

Excellent observation. Like many, playing bass in a Bluegrass band was my introduction to playing music, and my first stage experience. Initially, the sound of the bass drew me in, and the job of bassist appealed to my behind-the-scenes nature. Almost 30 years later, I play bass in several different groups, from the occasional classical ensemble, to original acoustic folk, to gritty rock cover bands. I can still hold down a tight root-five-n-fill with any decent Southwest Virginia rhythm section too.

Stage time is all the same to me now, and I have no preference, but playing Bluegrass was the original hook.

 

[wallawallabob]

Well, I guess I'll weigh in:
One of my first musical "loves" was bluegrass - it still is - and I love playing it. I enjoy the evolution of the style from the old Stanley brothers to the new Steel Drivers and Cadillac Sky bands who bend and morph the music to suit themselves.

My BG musician friends can play virtually any song, even if they have never heard it before, before the song gets thru the first verse. They are by far the best at their craft (classical musicians exempt) of anyone I play with. They can change tempo, stops, flying key changes, and solos - many of them on multiple instruments (not at the same time, tho).

That being said - most people don't want to pay to listen to BG. Most of those who do want to pay to hear are BG musicians themselves who go to festivals because that is the only venue, in most areas of the country, you can get it. My kids (20 somethings) love BG music - they have it in their playlists - but they generally won't pay to listen to it live. But when I play in my house with a bunch of my friends - if the kids are in town - our house is packed with people - for about an hour.

We are originally from Montana, and our daughter just finished college in Bozeman a couple of years ago, so I can attest to the growing number of BG musicians and fans in Bozoville and Missoula especially, but also elsewhere in MT and in Idaho. BG is very popular with many young people in the Pacific N West - the biggest BG festival I have ever been to is "Wintergrass" held in late Feb at a hotel in Bellevue, WA, a suburb of Seattle. I have NEVER seen so much jamming going on at a festival in my life! There is Gypsy jazz, swing, blues, old time, country, and yes - bluegrass everywhere all day, all night, every day. Every nook and cranny in that hotel has music happening. It is truly something to behold. And many - probably nearly half - are fairly young (30 or less) to very young people.

This is important because this must happen in order for that genre of music to carry on: young people must be exposed to it enough to appreciate the music. Then they bend it and shape it into what they want.

It will, in my opinion, continue to be a niche market in the music cosmos mainly because of folks' lack of exposure to the music and their lack of understanding it. It is no longer music just for crackers..... Ever heard of the "Carolina Chocolate Drops"?

 

[Fat Steve]

Well, Ever heard of the "Carolina Chocolate Drops"?

I have now! Thanks for that.

 

[wisconsindead]

I like bluegrass but I think it is far too homogeneous as a musical niche.

-The set up of a band doesnt vary widely
-the vocals are extremely similar across all of the bands playing bluegrass
-acoustic instrument tones dont vary much, at least compared to electric instruments, and its even more so true for people who listen rarely listen to acoustic music
-song structures dont vary much
-lyrics dont vary much

in short, its wayyy too homogenous across the board. great music though for 30 minutes of listening lol.

 

[misterbadger]

Some of these comments are probably applicable to jazz too. Y'know, heard one piano/bass/drum trio...;-)

 

[P Town]

TL,DR
I think it's all them durned fiddles, mandolins, and banjos, and all that harmony singin' too. Yeah, most definitely it's the banjos, and what not. Now iffen yew had an accordion player, (or two) in there it'd be much better. But yew culd make it even better iffen yew had a couple saxes, a fretless trombone, and a Hammond B3. And, a harmonica. And. if they played more kalimba, that'd do it fer me. Oh yeah, git rid of that stupid upright bass. I can't stand the sound of those things. Ralph Stanley refused to take my advice on all this, (and he's hanging it up, by the way), so I don't expect anyone else will either, but I'm a-telling yew, to get a horn section fer yer bluegrsss band, and you'll see what I mean.

 

[simbajahi]

I love blue grass music

 

[NKUSigEp]

I love it. Anyone else who likes bluegrass and old timey music should check out some friends of mine - The Tillers. Great guys and PHENOMENAL musicians!

 

[Ben Noblit]

Ever heard of the "Carolina Chocolate Drops"?

I agree completely with most of your post, and the Chocolate Drops are damn good, and good people as well, but that's old-time, not bluegrass for the most part. It's a shame Justin and Don are no longer with them.

 

[NKUSigEp]

Here ya go...

https://www.facebook.com/thetillers

 

[bejoyous]

...because David Lee Roth ruined it.

 

[wallawallabob]

I agree completely with most of your post, and the Chocolate Drops are damn good, and good people as well, but that's old-time, not bluegrass for the most part. It's a shame Justin and Don are no longer with them.

True, The Drops are more old-timey, but IMHO old-time and bluegrass are kissin'-cousins.

In fact, this is part of my point: There is a huge spectrum of the genre. The bluegrass bar scene in Missoula, MT is pretty dang electric. The more popular bluegrass bands that actually are selling their digital music are really progressive new-grass bands that sometimes border on country. The early recordings of Bill Monroe sound pretty "old-timey" now to the general public. (No, I am NOT dissing the King of Bluegrass!)

In the last few years I have seen a lot of diversity (race-wise) on stage at our bluegrass festivals with a TON of genre-bending happ'n'!

I like it, and support it, a lot!

 

[martinc]

" Why isn't bluegrass more popular?" is a loaded question. It implies to me that bluegrass music ought to be as popular as today's contempory music.....or yesterday's rock and roll. More popular than what?
It's also a difficult question to to answer directly because it all depends on your perspective. So here are some thoughts to add to the debate rather than respond directly to the question......

Bluegrass music is certainly more popular than it was when I started listening to and playing bluegrass music in the early 70's, despite economic downturns along the way.
The music has changed a lot since then and with that, the "business" of bluegrass has grown. Just look at how many instrument makers and songwriters there are now and how many publications and organizations have sprung up.
Same goes with festivals. I think back to the early 70's and then see what I see now and am amazed that bluegrass music still attracts large crowds. And these crowds are from a much wider section of the population than before....and also include the younger generation.
I think one reason that bluegrass has continued to grow is that it has included singer-songwriters who tackle a much larger sphere of topics to write about. This has attracted more bands and widened the audience base for the music.
For fans of all acoustic music, bluegrass now provides a wonderful choice of expression. The tent now includes jazzy bluegrass, folkie bluegrass, pop gospel, traditional bluegrass, old-time and country bluegrass....and more that has yet to be categorized.
Guitars, banjo's, mandolins, fiddles and resophonic instruments were around long before Bill Monroe came up with his "revved-up" old time music, which became known as bluegrass music. Bill Monroe changed the music of his day and and that process will surely continue.
There seems to be a never-ending demand for acoustic musical instruments, especially guitars, so this also makes me optimistic about the growth of bluegrass music if it continues to offer various forms of its roots.

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

+1^^^

Excellent reply.

 

[rusag2]

I'm actually pretty stunned by some of the replies here. Bluegrass is an invented genre of music. It is not "folk music" any more than chamber music is folk music. Also, bluegrass is fairly popular across the country; not as much for listening as it is for playing. There are literally hundreds of Bluegrass festivals across the country where thousands of people pick until dawn. I don't see any other genre of music that attracts the number of players, who play at such high levels. Sure, there are Jazz Festivals. But most people don't take their own saxophone to a Jazz Festival. There are reggae festivals....but most spectators take ganga rather than guitars. But in bluegrass...well, stop by just about any Bluegrass Festival...most of the cars will have more than one ax packed in the trunk and they're not there for show. It's a bit like bowling. Bowling is not a popular spectator sport. But more people bowl than any play any other sport in the country. Oh, and yes, there is a style to Bluegrass singing (just like there is a style to playing). I personally was classically trained (vocally). It took me a long time to get the vibrato out of my voice and to begin to approximate High Lonesome. There is a reason. If you wanna learn more, contact me. Let's go to a jam or festival or a cruise. Here's a good place to start: http://travel.usatoday.com/destinat...k-and-grin-at-a-bluegrass-festival/55192450/1
http://www.mountainsongatsea.com/
Link Removed

 

[MT Spaces]

It is damn-interesting for me to come back to this BlueGrass Thread at TalkBass a month-and-1/2 later after posting a comment to see the fur flying and all the great perspectives on the Genre. But ... I have a Small Business to run. I only play upright bass for Fun and Sanity . Our small business and my employees are just hanging-on. This Winter I haven't been playing my basses as much as I would like to . Montana Winters are tough but that is how we make our living ... Heating Systems. Thankfully we were able to re-new our long-term health insurance plan for everyone that we have had for 10 years without sinking into the so-called "Affordable" Care Act Crap . We have been making our way in business for years with "No Thanks" to the current batch of Dot.Gov.Robots and all of their Empty Promises and all of Our Esteemed Millionaire Members of Congress ... Never Mind .... I need to go play some BlueGrass Bass to settle down ...

+1 what MT Spaces said - nice rant! Couldn't have said it better myself. Bluegrass is quite popular here in northern California - I could jam or hear live music every night, and have more than a dozen festivals within easy driving distance ....

Thanks for appreciating my rant . We get some good CA bluegrass bands touring thru MT once-in-awhile. We got to hear a great CA band ... Windy Hill. They have a great "traditional" sound IMO. And ... Holy Crap ... Can they drink whiskey and beers during their breaks with us and still sound good on stage. NoWay I could play bass after drinking that many shots.

.... it is hard to believe a bluegrass or blues band if the members are not age correct for the period of their music. My father in law has been born and raised on bluegrass and has held down banjo duties for a long time now. Those guys could give a hoot about the popularity of the music. As far as the scene, well for them the scene is every tues. night in some old barn where they won't let you in with short pants on. Hahaha

Great and Funny Comment. Say Hello to your Father-In-Law for me . I love banjo players. Please give me the address of the old barns. Banjo makes the music we all love. I am just the bass player.

Mumford and Sons is not bluegrass. Not even close. They have a banjo in the band, and that's about as far as the connection goes. .... Western swing is country, and so is bluegrass, but they are both their own thing ...

Amen to the "not bluegrass" comment. Western swing music is also one of my attempts to play bass with. Bob Wills Forever ! It is tough to play a walking 4-beat bass-line with bluegrass without the rest of the band wanting to put me and my bass in the dumpster behind the store we play at every Tuesday night.

My theory on the popularity of Bluegrass as with most traditional forms of music is that the more grit and passion in the music, the less popular it will be. A lot of people don't have a feeling for passionate music and they have been feeding on the bleched white bread of our pop music all their lives. In the case of Bluegrass you can add to that the perception that the people who associate themselves with Bluegrass are backwards hillbilies, a perception promoted by popular media consistantly. The truth ofcourse is just the opposite as is usually the case in our society. Up is down and black is white. It's part of the American paradigmn.

Thanks Dave .... I just wanted to re-quote your entire comment since I think it is important and The Truth. "Grit and Passion" ... That's Good. "Up is down and black is white" ..... That's what most of America is fed every day. Until ... The defecation hits the ventilation and that deception does not work anymore.

Much like jazz, i like bluegrass best when it's fused with another genre.

Which genre would you suggest ? .... South African Mgqashiyo, Tuvan Throat Singing, Gregorian Chants, Northern Cheyenne Indian Singing .... I am all-ears .

.... We can increase bluegrass' popularity if we get rid of the acoustic instruments and replace them with electrics, add drums and keyboards, lose the rural themes and Southern-sounding singers and replace them with tattoos, shaven heads, and Michigan accents, get a new reportoire on the theme of "I'M SO ALIENATED AND NO ONE UNDERSTANDS ME WHILE I LIVE IN MY MOM'S BASEMENT AT AGE THIRTY AND PLAY VIDEO GAMES ALL DAY", smoke pots and a laser light show ....

Turf Gets It .... He Has A Plan .

Awesome post, Bob, the whole damn thing. Thanks!

Thanks Jake. Your comment means a lot to me. I sold the 1940 Kay "Dottie" ... So Sad. But Reds the 1959-ish Epiphone and Rene the 1949 American Standard are still kicking-butt when I get a chance to play them.

We're not in Alabama anymore Toto.

What do you mean Lou ? There are some awesome Alabama bluegrass players ... Search them out.

Bluegrass has plenty of soul and groove ...

Amen Big Mike .... Folks like Larry Sparks, Junior Sisk, James King, Dan Tyminski, David Peterson, Don Rigsby, etc. etc.

Not to mention the Great Women with bluegrass Soul ... I like Wimin .... 'Specially BlueGrass Women. Hazel Dickens, Alice Gerrard, Gillian Welch, Allison, Laurie Lewis, Patty Loveless, Claire Lynch, OlaBelle Reed, Rhonda Vincent .... Etc. Etc. Buy the O Sister Collections.

Bluegrass is alive and well in my area .... Don’t get paid a dime and don’t care if I ever do ...

That's the ticket ! Having fun is what matters.

.... One of my first musical "loves" was bluegrass - it still is - and I love playing it.

... My BG musician friends can play virtually any song, even if they have never heard it before, before the song gets thru the first verse. They are by far the best at their craft (classical musicians exempt) of anyone I play with. They can change tempo, stops, flying key changes, and solos - many of them on multiple instruments (not at the same time, tho) ...

... We are originally from Montana, and our daughter just finished college in Bozeman a couple of years ago ....

Double U Double U Bob ... You are lucky that you get to play with so-many bluegrass virtuosos. One time when me and my college Pals in Bozeman had too-much to drink in college at MSU ("Moo-U") in 1972 at The Rocking R Bar in Bozeman and the cops stopped us when we were driving home ... We did one of those "Flying Key Changes" between vehicles just to confuse them .

I love blue grass music

That is a simple, straight-forward, honest, and appreciated comment with No Spin Attached. What more is there to say ?