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Double Bass Why isn't Jazz that popular? (DB forum thread)

#241
Music is an ancient human cultural expression of emotion. Did Rhythm (banging on hollow wood) come before melody (singing around the fire after a good mammoth bbq)?

What emotion do you want to give or get from your music?

Personally, Jazz is good to put me sleep.
 
#242
Mokebass said:
Music is an ancient human cultural expression of emotion. Did Rhythm (banging on hollow wood) come before melody (singing around the fire after a good mammoth bbq)?

What emotion do you want to give or get from your music?

Personally, Jazz is good to put me sleep.
Click to expand...

See I don't think jazz really gives one emotion. Right now I'm listening to roy Hargrove playing invitation and it certainly wouldn't be good to put me asleep, actually it gives me more energy. On the other hand i put bill Evans live at the village vanguard on before I go to bed.
 
#243
Well, I must say that this has been an interesting read, at least from a sociological point of view. Many thanks to Chris, Sam, Huy and Jeremy for their insights and willingness to share valuable insights about their chosen craft.

I'm not sure why this is in the Double bass section as there are very few double bassists contributing. In many ways this thread reminds me of the story of the blind men trying to describe and elephant that they of course, could not see. In essence these blind men had no idea about what they were trying to describe. They had no actual context and no real knowledge. They had no vocabulary to describe something that was completely alien to them. These earnest blind men therefore, made many gross, inaccurate and inarticulate statements regarding what an elephant was.

Now before I get many hateful comments from all of the electric bass players, I ask that you look at my personal data. Although I started out, and have always loved and studied jazz, I spent the greater part of my career playing and recording with many, many pop and rock stars. I have to admit that I loved some of that music. In fact, I will concede that it takes chops and technique to record just about any kind of music well. However, for me, playing popular styles of music just served to reinforce my love and respect of jazz.

Jazz, Primarily (1940's-1960's Bop and post-Bop), is just about all I do now and that is by choice. I also get paid pretty well for performing/playing this music. For me, the genre is the most expressive, communicative, soulful, evocative music to play and perform. It requires great ears, being very quick on your feet, lots of technique and chops and a willingness to be fearless in your playing as well as the ability to compose and edit in real time on the spot. To my knowledge, there are no other forms of music that require all of these attributes all at the same time.

Feel free to comment on this post. However, please keep in my that this is supposed to be a civil discussion, not a snark fest or a pissing contest. I'm reminded of an old quote that might apply, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt". :cool:
 
#244
Jazz Is Dead. (or is a slowing rotting corpse of it's former glory).

I've recently seen Chick Corea with Christian McBride & _? (some awesome drummer who's name I don't remember off hand) at Yoshi's, Herbie Handcock + band at Zellerbach, Brad Mehldau & Joshua Redman duo & guess what?.... None of them sold out ANY of their venues; which typically were not of considerable size. So what does it mean when top notch, WORLD class jazz musicians mentioned above aren't able to sell out the house?... (and I'm willing to bet that the majority of the audience in attendance are local pro/novice jazz musicians).

I conclude that while there are a few artists who still produce amazing high quality jazz, little to no one cares; otherwise all the self proclaimed "jazz connoisseur's" would be tearing the doors down. Seriously, when Chick Corea & Christian McBride can't sell out a house (as unfortunate as that is) it's time to face the facts.

IMO.
 
#245
Federighi said:
Jazz Is Dead. (or is a slowing rotting corpse of it's former glory).

I've recently seen Chick Corea with Christian McBride & _? (some awesome drummer who's name I don't remember off hand) at Yoshi's, Herbie Handcock + band at Zellerbach, Brad Mehldau & Joshua Redman duo & guess what?.... None of them sold out ANY of their venues; which typically were not of considerable size. So what does it mean when top notch, WORLD class jazz musicians mentioned above aren't able to sell out the house?... (and I'm willing to bet that the majority of the audience in attendance are local pro/novice jazz musicians).

I conclude that while there are a few artists who still produce amazing high quality jazz, little to no one cares; otherwise all the self proclaimed "jazz connoisseur's" would be tearing the doors down. Seriously, when Chick Corea & Christian McBride can't sell out a house (as unfortunate as that is) it's time to face the facts.

IMO.
Click to expand...

So ... in all we should abandon jazz because their's no money there ??? Music is now all about making money ??? No one play because they like it ??? No one play because it fulfills something in their heart ??? People only play if there is some money at the end ???

I think jazz ( and classical music for that matter ) will always live somewhere because their always be someone who want to push technic, virtuosity, knowledge and see for themselve the richness of the music language.

You know, for many people, everything that is played on radio station or at tv is somewhat like a child who is starting to talk, so they seek an adult person to have a more meaningful conversation.
 
#247
topo morto said:
I would politely observe, sir, that to the uneducated observer, your post might appear one of the snarkier in the thread so far!
Click to expand...

On the contrary, if the uneducated would just observe and learn... the few meaningful posts are mostly by successful pro bass players and educators. Jazz is alive and well, but the big paydays are few and far between. Sound like most rock bands?
 
#250
Federighi said:
Jazz Is Dead. (or is a slowing rotting corpse of it's former glory).

I've recently seen Chick Corea with Christian McBride & _? (some awesome drummer who's name I don't remember off hand) at Yoshi's, Herbie Handcock + band at Zellerbach, Brad Mehldau & Joshua Redman duo & guess what?.... None of them sold out ANY of their venues; which typically were not of considerable size. So what does it mean when top notch, WORLD class jazz musicians mentioned above aren't able to sell out the house?... (and I'm willing to bet that the majority of the audience in attendance are local pro/novice jazz musicians).

I conclude that while there are a few artists who still produce amazing high quality jazz, little to no one cares; otherwise all the self proclaimed "jazz connoisseur's" would be tearing the doors down. Seriously, when Chick Corea & Christian McBride can't sell out a house (as unfortunate as that is) it's time to face the facts.

IMO.
Click to expand...

Wasn't the OP's question WHY this is so?

Is it because old-fashioned music does not appeal to young people's sophisticated tastes? Or is it because sophisticated music does not appeal to young people's tastes for mediocrity? Or is it something in between? Or something else entirely?
 
#252
actually maybe it is

honestly, didn't read every page, but several - didn't notice too many geezers piping in but this in VERY interesting to me.

I'm 56 but old enough to remember when jazz was THE American popular music, it still was in the early 60s -

up to and through the 50s jazz was also THE dance music so...

I've been playing jazz since about 1970 but I got there from LZ, Allman Bros., Cream, etc. These bands improvised for days in a free jazz mentality

So, some of you young guys have it right - the players started playing for themselves, the Beatles! and mass media happened.

But some of you also display another reason - the more important one - lack of education and a general dumbing down of the US

It's almost like smart is bad, study is bad, high-culture is bad - those who follow this tenant do so at their own peril.

Ask yourself this;

Why are 80% of Richard Bona's gigs overseas?
Why will the Blue Note pay to fly the 16 piece Pastorious Big Band to Tokyo but YOU'VE never heard of them?

Jazz players can usually play almost any other style competently but the inverse is not true.
 
#253
Jazz is alive and well! Is a language totally beyond many musician wannabes and only appreciated by people of the finest taste. In my opinion its purely the cherry on the cake, the intellectual side of music, jazz is for the adventurous mind, simply the one and only shining style. If I had to play anything else I'd rather learn a new skill like plumber or car mechanic.
 
#254
pnchad said:
actually maybe it is

honestly, didn't read every page, but several - didn't notice too many geezers piping in but this in VERY interesting to me.

I'm 56 but old enough to remember when jazz was THE American popular music, it still was in the early 60s -

up to and through the 50s jazz was also THE dance music so...

I've been playing jazz since about 1970 but I got there from LZ, Allman Bros., Cream, etc. These bands improvised for days in a free jazz mentality

So, some of you young guys have it right - the players started playing for themselves, the Beatles! and mass media happened.

But some of you also display another reason - the more important one - lack of education and a general dumbing down of the US

It's almost like smart is bad, study is bad, high-culture is bad - those who follow this tenant do so at their own peril.

Ask yourself this;

Why are 80% of Richard Bona's gigs overseas?
Why will the Blue Note pay to fly the 16 piece Pastorious Big Band to Tokyo but YOU'VE never heard of them?

Jazz players can usually play almost any other style competently but the inverse is not true.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I don't see how a dislike of jazz is a sign of a lack of education.
 
#255
pnchad said:
Jazz players can usually play almost any other style competently but the inverse is not true.
Click to expand...

And that is the thorn in the eyes of players from other styles. I can go to any gig pick up the bass and play, yet only last week I asked a friend who is truly veteran blues bass player to sit in for a set doing simple jazz standards. The answer was " I don't know these songs " When I said " just look at the charts " I got some embarrassed smile back. Yet at parties these dudes are the loudest advertising their skills. Seen it all too often.
 
#257
timobee4 said:
And that is the thorn in the eyes of players from other styles. I can go to any gig pick up the bass and play, yet only last week I asked a friend who is truly veteran blues bass player to sit in for a set doing simple jazz standards. The answer was " I don't know these songs " When I said " just look at the charts " I got some embarrassed smile back. Yet at parties these dudes are the loudest advertising their skills. Seen it all too often.
Click to expand...

If he is a veteran player he must be doing something right. What this proves about the decline in jazz popularity I'm not sure.
Has anyone else noticed the slow decline of jazz is matched by the slow, steady rise of bluegrass and celtic type stuff? Maybe it's just me, but i know of a few people who would seem to fit the profile of jazz musician going that route in their choice of instrument and style.
 
#260
notverygood said:
If he is a veteran player he must be doing something right. What this proves about the decline in jazz popularity I'm not sure.
Has anyone else noticed the slow decline of jazz is matched by the slow, steady rise of bluegrass and celtic type stuff? Maybe it's just me, but i know of a few people who would seem to fit the profile of jazz musician going that route in their choice of instrument and style.
Click to expand...

Lot of truth in there! The steady rise of these hideous so called music styles are easy to explain. In order to understand and play jazz first you have to start young and be prepared to learn and practice hours of seemingly boring stuff for years. To play anything else you can pick up a bass and in 2 months you can sit in any bluegrass or whatever gig. Jazz is a complex language the rest is just fun dont require knowledge of scales, chords etc.
 

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