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Double Bass Why isn't Jazz that popular? (DB forum thread)

#61
Technical, but without art is my problem with most jazz these days. Most of the guys playing seem to think more is better. Once the universities started churning out Jazz majors, music has been more of a competition to see who can say the least, while shoving the most notes into their solo. They use too many notes, and not enough music to do what they are doing.
 
#62
EasyJames said:
Basically it is simply paying attention and setting your own self aside for a moment.
Here's a wikilink. You can substitute music for conversation in this description. It is my belief that listening/hearing is the biggest skill a musician can possess.

Active listening - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Aha - I did hit that link but I thought you meant something more music-specific.

The bit about "They may be distracted, thinking about other things..." is probably more and more true these days... music usually has to compete with other stimuli and grab the attention.

Why do you think it's particularly relevant to Jazz? (I can think of what you might mean, but just curious)
 
#63
carl h. said:
Technical, but without art is my problem with most jazz these days. Most of the guys playing seem to think more is better. Once the universities started churning out Jazz majors, music has been more of a competition to see who can say the least, while shoving the most notes into their solo. They use too many notes, and not enough music to do what they are doing.
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Because they like bebop and its modern sound and pursue that route ? The rule of playing less equal more isn't always the best answer.
 
#64
topo morto said:
I listen to a fair bit of Jazz (John Scofield, Duke Ellington, Erik Truffaz, Miles Davis, Louis Sclavis... various bits).

But my personal Jazz hate is that I hear too many jazz piceces that go like:

- lovely intro and initial theme (lasts about a minute)
- a bunch of elaborations on that theme that don't improve on it, and at worst, lose the theme entirely and degenerate to just playing in the key (15 minutes)
- apologetically play the theme again (30 seconds)

One of the nice things about pop music is that 'the good bit' is repeated, not played once and then put up against the wall and shot.
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You have to think like it is a conversation between many people.
Someone tells the subject (theme) and then eveyone have their chance to speak on the subject (solo), then someone come back at the initial sentence and that end the discution.
 
#66
topo morto said:
Aha - I did hit that link but I thought you meant something more music-specific.

The bit about "They may be distracted, thinking about other things..." is probably more and more true these days... music usually has to compete with other stimuli and grab the attention.

Why do you think it's particularly relevant to Jazz? (I can think of what you might mean, but just curious)
Click to expand...

To me it is because jazz doesn't rely on a catchy hook where one generally tends to listen to the overall experience where jazz is , to me, all about the contributions of each note from each instrument. That requires alot of attention. I would compare it to visual art where today's popular music would be about an overall composition of a painting and jazz would be an in depth study of the colors. All this is just my own experience and gut feeling.
 
#68
Mudfuzz said:
Right... now think about it.... Ironic.. don't 'ya think....
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I don't see the irony in it. Jazz can't be marketed like pop/rock/punk/rap/r'n'b/metal ... You can't sell cloths that the player will wear (did ever see two jazz musician wearing the same outfit in the modern days ?) and you can't sell some kind of personality or anything like that that draw the attention somewhere else than on the music. You don't have talenless stars in jazz to help sell coths and a personality to kids.
 
#69
EasyJames said:
To me it is because jazz doesn't rely on a catchy hook where one generally tends to listen to the overall experience where jazz is , to me, all about the contributions of each note from each instrument. That requires alot of attention. I would compare it to visual art where today's popular music would be about an overall composition of a painting and jazz would be an in depth study of the colors. All this is just my own experience and gut feeling.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I see what you mean.

To continue on the 'Why isn't Jazz that popular' theme - it can sometimes use rather 'tried and true' colours... we've all heard piano/trumpet/bass combos - why not so much minimoog/xylophone/rainstick? Or 5-part a capella?

IMO pop music is where the timbral experimentation has been over the last half century, even if partly though absorbing influences from other styles.
 
#70
steamthief said:
I like this: Invalid Link Removed - is it jazz?
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Wynton Marsalis might cut you for calling it jazz. It is generally called Acid Jazz or Jazz Rap. It is neither Acid or Jazz to me. When I first heard the term I was expecting Sun Ra over a techno beat. While a Herbie Hancock song was liberally taken from in this case, Hip Hop also sampled from rock, blues, soul, funk, pop.........

Before you take my opinion as gospel I must warn you that because of another opinion my Funk Card was revoked about a month ago ;)
 
#71
topo morto said:
Yeah, I see what you mean.

To continue on the 'Why isn't Jazz that popular' theme - it can sometimes use rather 'tried and true' colours... we've all heard piano/trumpet/bass combos - why not so much minimoog/xylophone/rainstick? Or 5-part a capella?

IMO pop music is where the timbral experimentation has been over the last half century, even if partly though absorbing influences from other styles.
Click to expand...

Those are excellent observations. As far as minimoog/xylophone/rainstick? I hope it's only a matter of time. Hockey game is starting so I'm out for the night. Thanks for the conversation.
 
#74
Mayers said:
I don't see the irony in it. Jazz can't be marketed like pop/rock/punk/rap/r'n'b/metal ... You can't sell cloths that the player will wear (did ever see two jazz musician wearing the same outfit in the modern days ?) and you can't sell some kind of personality or anything like that that draw the attention somewhere else than on the music.
Click to expand...

You obviously haven't seen Pat Metheny's hair lately :ninja:
 
#76
Mayers said:
I don't see the irony in it. Jazz can't be marketed like pop/rock/punk/rap/r'n'b/metal ... You can't sell cloths that the player will wear (did ever see two jazz musician wearing the same outfit in the modern days ?) and you can't sell some kind of personality or anything like that that draw the attention somewhere else than on the music. You don't have talenless stars in jazz to help sell coths and a personality to kids.
Click to expand...
Jazz T-Shirts at JazzStore.com
 
#77
steven1068 said:
I've also been puzzled at the lack of enthusiasm for jazz music. As a teenager, I can attest to the fact that most kids these days only listen to what their friends listen to or what is "cool" at that time, which is either new rap, mainstream pop, or metal. I personally love jazz, but most of my friends don't like it. I like to think it takes a more sophisticated taste in music to appreciate good jazz.
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Meh, I still have to say it's a little elitist to come across that way. I'm 16--going on 17 in January. I've listened to everything from stuff like Primus, to Madvillain, to Miles Davis, Coltrane and Mahler. And everything in between. I've gotten my friends into these genres as well; I attended Primus' show at the Tower Theatre last month with a friend who previously only listened to Led Zeppelin. I've played jazz in churches and have had the same reaction as if I'd just played Ke$ha. Minus the sing-along part.

My point is, I don't doubt any specific "generation"'s ability to appreciate good music. They just haven't been exposed to it. It seems to me that the major complaint is that people want a horse to walk backwards when all it knows is forwards. Of course the horse can walk backwards. It just hasn't been shown how, yet, and to horses who have been walking backwards for decades it's probably really weird that they can't.
 

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