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Double Bass Why isn't Jazz that popular? (DB forum thread)

#81
James Judson said:
I recently went to a jazz jam and found really talented musicians playing (intimidated me right out of the building). I've only been playing 50 years with some jazz background as well. These guys were awesome. The bar was standing room only (obviously jazz fans). noticed not one and I mean NOT ONE bobbing head, tapping fingers, tapping toes, singing along etc. I wondered if these folks could "feel" one of George Thorogoods songs.

Just a couple observations.
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Here's the scenario you describe: You went to a jazz jam where the players were awesome, and the place was packed. The people you saw were enjoying themselves. It was obvious to you that they came to listen, period, but you logged on here and said, "they didn't tap their feet, they didn't sing along with the musicians, they didn't bob their heads..."

You turned their positive listening (it's music, after all) experience into a negative because they weren't responding to musical stimuli the way you wanted them to.

Why?

Jhengsman said:
You obviously haven't seen Pat Metheny's hair lately :ninja:
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How recently? It's looked the same way for 30 years, other than getting grey.
 
#82
Mudfuzz said:
Jazz T-Shirts at JazzStore.com
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Not exacly what I have in mind. A band t-shirt isn't enough. Kid who listen to rap doesn't wear t-shirt with a rapper on it ... it is more the style of the cloths or the brand of the cloths. Metal is in black and band t-shirt. Pop is more about what is the new fashion. etc

Every jazz live show that I saw or on DVD, every player wear whatever he wanted that day and it is ok, how they look isn't important, the music is.
 
#83
Ronbassman said:
You just gave more strength to his point.
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Not really as I wasn't really arguing with him as he actually missed missed the point I was making, which is fine. What really bugs me is why the thread has been specified as a DB thread, I'd think that with the topic at hand not saying which section it is in would draw more opinions from a group of bassist that are not as jazz-based... But... eh... none of this or that will get people that don't want to hear either by choice or ignorance via image [everything has image] to check it out. And yes The point on danceability is a good one but not just because of that... When I talk to people that LIKE radio rock [gets bag ready] and listens to it every day [puts bag up tho mouth] the opinions I get are "oh the Lame Kenny G ****" or what the **** is that ****ing noise?" all else falls somewhere in the middle... Also Jazz is seen as old and for old and or stuffy people by a lot of people... yep gott'a love image and how it and pop culture swirl around:D

And no if I don't care if ^ made any sense or point :spit:
 
#85
Back in '85 when I played with Dizzy, I liked it just fine. But he knew how to leave space.

(Sorry about the name drop, I HATE to do it, but it seemed to be called for in this case. It was just section work when he was road testing his symphonic charts.)

Where I work now, the brass tech is a jazz freak. He hits radio IO from the moment he arrives til he leaves. It is just too much noise for me. Those guys just seem to hit it over and over again and again. I can't wait to turn it off.

I used to play full time, and enjoy playing so fast that others just get frustrated when they can't keep up, but not all the time. It has its place, but too much is too much. I enjoy the music, not the spectacle.
 
#88
My reply to the original question is, who cares about the level of popularity of any music? Jazz, like all music (or art for that matter), speaks to a certain community of people who dig it, and for them it is important. That's the end of the story. You could be asking the same question about math rock or contemporary classical music or anything that blows a small number of people's minds but doesn't sell many records/downloads and therefore isn't popular.

I say this as a professional jazz musician and professor of "jazz studies." I love pop music, indie rock, old-time mountain music, hip hop, heavy metal, singer-songwriter stuff, all of it. Jazz is the thing that speaks to my soul, and if my students or peers complain about jazz not being popular (and therefore not earning them money) I say "if you want to be popular, you need to make something that lots of people actually like and want to buy." Gotta interact with the marketplace if that's the game you're trying to play. If it's not, just make your art and forget about it.
 
#89
Auriaprottu said:
How recently? It's looked the same way for 30 years, other than getting grey.
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:hiding:
Exactly, 30 years ago it did not make a spectacle of him and your eyes did not distracted you from the music. In 2011 it looks almost like a clown costume

edit to add photo:

DSCF0205-700.jpg
 
#91
Cause you can't dance to it and it has no attitude.
People like 50 Cent beacuse what they think he stands for.....Scofield?...can't compete.

And this is coming from a dude who loves jazz..but real talk, on a Friday night, half-way drunk with women in the car, if you put on Coltrane, I'm punching you in the face.
 
#94
Jeremy Allen said:
My reply to the original question is, who cares about the level of popularity of any music? Jazz, like all music (or art for that matter), speaks to a certain community of people who dig it, and for them it is important. That's the end of the story. You could be asking the same question about math rock or contemporary classical music or anything that blows a small number of people's minds but doesn't sell many records/downloads and therefore isn't popular.

I say this as a professional jazz musician and professor of "jazz studies." I love pop music, indie rock, old-time mountain music, hip hop, heavy metal, singer-songwriter stuff, all of it. Jazz is the thing that speaks to my soul, and if my students or peers complain about jazz not being popular (and therefore not earning them money) I say "if you want to be popular, you need to make something that lots of people actually like and want to buy." Gotta interact with the marketplace if that's the game you're trying to play. If it's not, just make your art and forget about it.
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^^^ Saved me a lot of typing.
 
#96
To: auriaprottu

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say anything negative. I didn't say anyone was having a good time (or bad). I didn't make any judgement calls. I simply made an observation.

I made two points:

1. people love to hate stuff.
2. jazz can be hard to connect with.

Now you tell me why jazz is not more popular.
 
#97
Fundamentally, any cultural experience is an acquired taste. Jazz. Bob Dylan. Metal. JS Bach. Opera. Brad Paisley. Murder mysteries. Oil paintings. Shakespeare. Sit-coms. Adam Sandler. It does all sound the same until you become educated about the differences or embrace the familiarity.

It is not an insult to note that most people follow the crowd most of the time. As many have noted above the unpopularity of jazz is, to a large extent, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

On the other hand, many jazz performers neglect their role in reaching out to the audience. Does your band
-- Tell the "crowd" what tune they just heard?
-- Vary tempos, meters and keys through the set?
-- Arrange songs with introductions and interludes between solos?
-- Vary the solo order throughout the gig?
-- Avoid having everyone solo on every tune?

Fun thread. Thanks all.
 
#98
One co-worker told me the reason she does not like jazz is because "there's too much music, and not enough singing."

I think many people need to hear the human voice singing lyrics in any music they're listening to. That "concrete" element may be their lifeline out of the abstraction that is a conglomeration of musical notes and tones.
 
#99
Also, the majority of jazz is non-vocal. . .but

Don't forget that the show biz aspect of pop music is paramount.
Flashing lights, smoke, explosions, dancers, flying mic stands and instruments. Even a showman like Miles would have bridled at being shot out of the floor as was Taylor Swift last night on the Whatchamacallit Awards. Come to think of it, that would have been a trip with Miles dressed in his shiny jumpsuit! Also I can't imagine Jim Hall throwing his guitar off the stage to a flunky on the floor as one hill billy did last night on the same show.
 

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